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Old 10-18-2014, 08:57 PM   #41
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Nevertheless, I frequently observe sea lions and dolphins in our waters currently, whereas in the 1960s and 1980s (my previously active boating decades), I saw none.
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Old 10-18-2014, 09:50 PM   #42
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I know people have more experience than sometimes they post...I wonder why the discrepancy???

I've seen way more than my share of sea life after 2 careers at sea and/or flying over it.

The vast majority of times I have been close to whales, orca and dolphins...they have chosen to come right up to me (the vessel I was on) rather than Me entering their lives.

I have even had a pilot whale mom I swear bumped my boat as she and he calf returned to sea after beach crews pushed them back into deep water...just a gentle grazing as if to say "thanks".

Me in their life????? ... only because they chose to join us as they could easily avoid us if they wanted to.
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Old 10-18-2014, 09:54 PM   #43
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Same up here Mark. Eagles are abundant where they were very rarely seen 30 years ago.

The Earth is always evolving and changing. I suspect that most of the species that go extinct do it w/o man's help but man causes many also.

Marin I can't believe you'd prefer killing a human than a deer. That would never occur to me as a question. But the deer is better for the earth.
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Old 10-18-2014, 10:01 PM   #44
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I have even had a pilot whale mom I swear bumped my boat as she and he calf returned to sea after beach crews pushed them back into deep water...just a gentle grazing as if to say "thanks".
I think that sort of thing is totally plausible. To think that only humans can express appreciation or say thanks or convey some other "relationship" feeling is, in my opinion, way off the mark.

An animal, be it a human or a whale, can experience and feel fear, terror, and uncertainty. So why should that animal not feel grateful in some way for having that fear and uncertainty removed from its life? And why should that animal not be capable of expressing that gratitude in some way, regardless of the kind of animal responsible for alleviating their fear and solving their problem?
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Old 10-18-2014, 10:03 PM   #45
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A primary difference between animals and humans is that many humans worry about their effect.
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Old 10-19-2014, 01:58 AM   #46
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Marin I can't believe you'd prefer killing a human than a deer. That would never occur to me as a question. But the deer is better for the earth.
I'm not sure that "prefer" is the correct word in this case. I don't think this hypothetical situation would involve a conscious decision to choose the deer over the person. I think that because of how i feel about things these days, how I view man's increasingly detrimental effect on pretty much everything on a worldwide basis, my attention would flash to the deer and not to the person. It would be an automatic reaction.
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Old 10-19-2014, 01:59 AM   #47
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A primary difference between animals and humans is that many humans worry about their effect.
They'd better.
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Old 10-19-2014, 06:56 AM   #48
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there is strong journalistic evidence piling up animals know we are the enemy....

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Old 10-20-2014, 02:04 AM   #49
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I have even had a pilot whale mom I swear bumped my boat as she and he calf returned to sea after beach crews pushed them back into deep water...just a gentle grazing as if to say "thanks".
I believe that to be completely possible.

When living on San Juan Island about 10 years ago I met Paul Watson of the Sea Shepard Society, pre-Whale Wars fame. I know he polarizes opinion, and I cannot fully condone his methods, however... When he told me the story of himself as a young man trying to save a sperm whale mother and calf from Russian harpoons by positioning himself and his Zodiac between the whales and the whalers, and what happened when a bull sperm whale tried to intervene... Long story short, as the whalers kill the bull it lunges up out of the water, looked Paul in the eye from a couple of feet away and, in his words, expressed gratitude for even trying to help. After hearing his personal, emotional account of that moment which completely galvanized his convictions, I can understand why he does what he does. I don't think 99.9% of humans can possibly relate.
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