Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-19-2013, 10:37 PM   #1
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,817
Opinions on Surveyors Experience

So, let's say you are looking hard at one of the last Willard trawlers made. It's located outside the USA and will need to be surveyed there. I am told there are 5 surveyors there. Let's assume one of them is a competent American living in paradise. The boat is less than 15 years old and a non cored hull. Boat looks to be immaculate with very low engine hours and has a regular maintenance schedule even though it now mostly sits at the dock.

Question: Do you go with the competent local who may never have surveyed a Willard before, or import one with Willard experience (at an exponentially greater cost)? How important is this experience (Willard) on a fairly young boat from a manufacturer of Willard's reputation?

Ted
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 08:04 AM   #2
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,909
My advice is have someone whether surveyor or not that you trust that has experience on vessel type look her over.

I have had bad luck with surveyors (might be due to my experience level and systems understanding)...but after so many posts on surveyors I know I wasn't unique.

If you know where to look and vessel specific issues are fleetwide...that person has a huge advantage in evaluating her over even a good eye. To do a great survey...even on a small vessel takes days...crawling into tight spots and removing covers to see if wire nuts were used in junction boxes takes a lot of time. Sometimes it takes 1/2 hour just to get in there and get 4 screws out...and 2 strip...how can you call it a good survey without that kind of diligence?

I know they are not supposed to destructively test or look...but reality a bit is necessary for a true evaluation.

But everything is cost effective...I'm not gonna worry about surveying a $30,000 boat that may only take $10,000 to bring back (surveyors unless you get a serious engine survey aren't gonna detect a bad engine most of the time) if it's gonna cost thousands to get it done... a $100,000 dollar boat that might take $50,000 to make up for non-obvious stuff might make it worth it.
__________________

psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 09:26 AM   #3
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
My advice is have someone whether surveyor or not that you trust that has experience on vessel type look her over.

I have had bad luck with surveyors (might be due to my experience level and systems understanding)...but after so many posts on surveyors I know I wasn't unique.

If you know where to look and vessel specific issues are fleetwide...that person has a huge advantage in evaluating her over even a good eye. To do a great survey...even on a small vessel takes days...crawling into tight spots and removing covers to see if wire nuts were used in junction boxes takes a lot of time. Sometimes it takes 1/2 hour just to get in there and get 4 screws out...and 2 strip...how can you call it a good survey without that kind of diligence?

I know they are not supposed to destructively test or look...but reality a bit is necessary for a true evaluation.

But everything is cost effective...I'm not gonna worry about surveying a $30,000 boat that may only take $10,000 to bring back (surveyors unless you get a serious engine survey aren't gonna detect a bad engine most of the time) if it's gonna cost thousands to get it done... a $100,000 dollar boat that might take $50,000 to make up for non-obvious stuff might make it worth it.
Good points.

On my current boat, the surveyor didn't find anything that I hadn't already found. However, I was unfamiliar with how to "tap" the hull with a plastic headed hammer to look for water intrusion into the balsa core. He explained what he was doing and did the entire hull. The hull was fine, but the deck had soft spots which I was already aware of.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 09:39 AM   #4
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
Good points.

On my current boat, the surveyor didn't find anything that I hadn't already found. However, I was unfamiliar with how to "tap" the hull with a plastic headed hammer to look for water intrusion into the balsa core. He explained what he was doing and did the entire hull. The hull was fine, but the deck had soft spots which I was already aware of.

Ted
It's a tough job....it's easy to be one and know a lot more than the average boater. They can make a living at it as long as they keep a good reputation..which isn't hard as most people never go back and make enough waves so the surveyor sees a big decrease in their business (maybe for some but I doubt many).

To be top notch you have to be an expert in many types of systems and be willing to stretch the envelope of what you are willing to discover. I just replace a hose to my raw water pump that looked brand new....it looked like it just had a little condensation on it...but if you grabbed it and pulled...all those droplets were from cracks that by the looks of the black hose and printing you would swear were new. When you pulled water would just stream out a lot of the cracks. Most boaters I know wouldn't investigate further and I bet all the surveyors I've used in the past wouldn't either based on the things they missed.

So to all the really good surveyors out there that probably work for 50 cents an hour, trying to stay on top of all the suggested "requirements", poking around their job boats for much longer than they bill for/than their competition, learning all the new tech to help (beyond moisture meters which many really don't use correctly from what I have seen/read), etc...etc...I applaud you, respect you and hope I can find one of you if I buy again or my friends need you....

To the rest.....have a nice day!
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 09:45 AM   #5
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,909
Bottom line is having someone you trust look at the boat...no matter what background or where they are from...
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 12:39 PM   #6
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: East Greenwich, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bella
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,881
I don't see any value in finding a surveyor with Willard experience. You yourself should search the forums for any vices that need to be looked at. But it is doubtful that you will get any clues as to what to look for that a good surveyor won't look for on his own.

Find a GOOD surveyor irrespective of Willard experience is my advice.

David
__________________

djmarchand is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012