Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-06-2019, 08:52 PM   #1
Member
 
City: East Dennis
Country: USA
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 12
Opinion- accepting a new boat

Before accepting delivery of new construction, would it be good practice to have a surveyor inspect the boat before
the final check is written?
__________________
Advertisement

PKPet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2019, 08:59 PM   #2
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,441
It depends on the size of the boat. If it is a large boat it probably would be a good idea.
__________________

Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2019, 09:55 PM   #3
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,437
Yes it would be a good deal. Being new doesn't mean there are things not compliant. A surveyor would be able to spot items in which would need to be fixed before taking delivery.
__________________
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
https://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 01:01 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
firehoser75's Avatar
 
City: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Pilitak
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 170
I agree with ASD.
For our last boat, a sailboat, we ordered new. Had her surveyed, and several items were found to be “problematic”. All items were repaired right away before delivery or the final check being issued. The broker still had “incentive” to get the issues dealt with in a very timely manner.
I would go that route again if I were to buy new.
__________________
Tom
Nanaimo, BC
firehoser75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 01:36 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
City: New York
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 293
Great Harbor....TT 35.

SPLASH! TT35 Hull #1
Genecop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 02:14 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
dirtdoc1's Avatar
 
City: Palo Alto
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Ann-Elyse II
Vessel Model: North Pacific 45
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKPet View Post
Before accepting delivery of new construction, would it be good practice to have a surveyor inspect the boat before
the final check is written?
It depends on the seller. North Pacific was no problem. They took care of any and all issues during commissioning and continue to back me up. Carver did too but dropped me like a hot rock once the warrantee expired. Even a major issue with the generator that they couldn't figure out from the very beginning. Once the warrantee expired they stopped working on it. That really pissed me off.

A good surveyor will pick up on all the issues before the check is written and while you still hold all the power. I probably should have had both my new boats surveyed prior to purchase but I'm not that smart.
__________________
Dirtdoc1
dirtdoc1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 05:14 AM   #7
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,777
"Before accepting delivery of new construction, would it be good practice to have a surveyor inspect the boat before
the final check is written?"

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

And a sea trial. as there is only so much that can be examined with out being underway.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 05:35 AM   #8
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,704
Yes to having a survey before acceptance. The only caveat that I would give to that is that they won't find everything. If I were going to invest in a new boat, it would take me a solid week of crawling around to satisfy myself. You are asking a person who may have looked at a couple of the model of boat you're buying to find any errors in a day? While they may have a trained eye for looking, the sheer volume and complexity of your average million dollar boat isn't going to be fully examined in a day. That why the surveyor's contract has an errors and omissions clause for the stuff they miss.

Ultimately, it's still up to you to do your own survey as well.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 09:11 AM   #9
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,664
On larger new builds it is common that a "person" (way more skilled and trained than your normal surveyor) familiar with that brand spends time at the factory watching for known defects and problem areas. Once into vessels that will be fully crewed the Captain may well live at the build site.

All boat builders' labor force can have a bad day. Many of these bad day problems will go unnoticed until or beyond commissioning time. I've spent time with commissioning skilled brand specific surveyors who go right to these known problem areas and assess the severity of the factory induced oops. Some are minor, some not. On this point I'm speaking of well known and high end brands.

For a near million dollar or more vessel, budgeting for a truly skilled professional with that brand's experience can prove a wise move. Rarely will new build issues hit a site like like TF. But they do whether an outboard powered Cutwater, bad drive train on a Seahorse or flop like the TT.

The notion that North Pacific, Nordhavn, Fleming or Westport build the perfect vessel has been proven wrong time and again. A boat is a complex thing and an oops or twenty is to be expected. A very smart owner, "person" or assigned crew can spot many issues as the vessel goes together. Commissioning can hopefully find and assess the rest.

So yes, once beyond an FRP rowboat, oversight is always a good idea. A friend of mine was in charge of QA/QC for a large builder. Great stories on what he found going on in his large factory. Upon retirement he was hired to look after various offshore new builds by the owner. The stories get even better.

I'd venture a guess that Steve D has a story or two on this subject.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 10:24 AM   #10
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"Before accepting delivery of new construction, would it be good practice to have a surveyor inspect the boat before
the final check is written?"

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

And a sea trial. as there is only so much that can be examined with out being underway.
Wifey B: But you didn't put enough "Yes!'s". More YES YES YES. It's not just have the survey and have a nice shakedown, but it's get all issues fixed before final acceptance. A lot easier before final payment than after.

One builder, no issues, all well. Builder two, minor things, they said they'd fix at our convenience. We said now, before final check. Less than 24 hours. Builder three, same deal but they got them all that afternoon. Fortunately all minor things.

However, tragic stories of new boats with major flaws never fixed by the builder and buyer finally just took to others and paid out of their pocket at great cost to get the boat they were supposed to new. Then a couple of boats with design flaws that functioned but never handled right.

Survey survey survey.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 10:33 AM   #11
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
On larger new builds it is common that a "person" (way more skilled and trained than your normal surveyor) familiar with that brand spends time at the factory watching for known defects and problem areas. Once into vessels that will be fully crewed the Captain may well live at the build site.



All boat builders' labor force can have a bad day. Many of these bad day problems will go unnoticed until or beyond commissioning time. I've spent time with commissioning skilled brand specific surveyors who go right to these known problem areas and assess the severity of the factory induced oops. Some are minor, some not. On this point I'm speaking of well known and high end brands.



For a near million dollar or more vessel, budgeting for a truly skilled professional with that brand's experience can prove a wise move. Rarely will new build issues hit a site like like TF. But they do whether an outboard powered Cutwater, bad drive train on a Seahorse or flop like the TT.



The notion that North Pacific, Nordhavn, Fleming or Westport build the perfect vessel has been proven wrong time and again. A boat is a complex thing and an oops or twenty is to be expected. A very smart owner, "person" or assigned crew can spot many issues as the vessel goes together. Commissioning can hopefully find and assess the rest.



So yes, once beyond an FRP rowboat, oversight is always a good idea. A friend of mine was in charge of QA/QC for a large builder. Great stories on what he found going on in his large factory. Upon retirement he was hired to look after various offshore new builds by the owner. The stories get even better.



I'd venture a guess that Steve D has a story or two on this subject.

This is very, very good advice. And you should go along with this expert as you will learn lots in the process.

Jim
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 11:02 AM   #12
Member
 
Blind Owl's Avatar
 
City: Abbotsford BC
Country: Canada
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 18
This might answer your question: https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/s...ction-reports/
__________________
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood." ó Tom Robbins
Blind Owl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 11:06 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Miz Trom's Avatar
 
City: St. Petersburg, Florida
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Mariso
Vessel Model: 43-ft American Boatworks custom
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 216
Quote:
Before accepting delivery of new construction, would it be good practice to have a surveyor inspect the boat before the final check is written?
- PKPet
Hi PKPet:


Would it be possible to get more details? Are you having a new Nauset 33 built, or some other brand?


I ask because if you are having, perhaps, a new center console built, then yes, a survey before final payment is a good idea.


If you are having a new trawler or cruiser built, i.e. a boat that includes all of the liveaboard and safety systems necessary for long term cruising, my response will be more in depth.


Cheers,
Pea
Miz Trom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 11:56 AM   #14
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,174
One caveat Miz Trom's post reminds me of. You may have a contract subject to survey, you may survey and major issues remain, and you may still be in trouble with an unscrupulous builder. I've known people with several different builders to end up held hostage. It's pay me the rest or you don't get the boat. Now, you owe a little, have paid a lot, and you either have to sue to get your boat or pay the ransom. Then after that you have the choice of suing or absorbing the loss.

Three specifics.
1-Boat had major issues found in inspection. Builder refused to fix. Buyer sued and won entire amount plus interest and return of boat.
2-Boat wasn't finished and was held hostage. Suit but builder went bankrupt. Buyer got boat and had finished by someone else.
3-Boat failed survey, builder refused to fix. Buyer paid the ransom, took boat, had it fixed at their expense.

I could list others, but the reality is the survey won't protect you from a dishonest builder. It will inform you and may help in court if you go that route although I could point to cases where it didn't there because of other issues with the case and lack of buyer credibility. Choose your builder carefully. Still survey.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 12:03 PM   #15
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,437
Bottom line in all the above? Get it surveyed before you accept it or future repairs will be on you,
__________________
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
https://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 02:19 PM   #16
Guru
 
City: Satsuma FL/Daytona Beach Shores
Country: United States
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
One caveat Miz Trom's post reminds me of. You may have a contract subject to survey, you may survey and major issues remain, and you may still be in trouble with an unscrupulous builder. I've known people with several different builders to end up held hostage. It's pay me the rest or you don't get the boat. Now, you owe a little, have paid a lot, and you either have to sue to get your boat or pay the ransom. Then after that you have the choice of suing or absorbing the loss.

Three specifics.
1-Boat had major issues found in inspection. Builder refused to fix. Buyer sued and won entire amount plus interest and return of boat.
2-Boat wasn't finished and was held hostage. Suit but builder went bankrupt. Buyer got boat and had finished by someone else.
3-Boat failed survey, builder refused to fix. Buyer paid the ransom, took boat, had it fixed at their expense.

I could list others, but the reality is the survey won't protect you from a dishonest builder. It will inform you and may help in court if you go that route although I could point to cases where it didn't there because of other issues with the case and lack of buyer credibility. Choose your builder carefully. Still survey.

As suggested, one should choose their builder carefully and that includes a lot of due diligence, specially, if you are having a boat built for you. Check organizations like the BBB and check with other owners who used the builder. One might think social media would reveal major issues with a builder but many buyers won't go public with bad experiences with their builder. A potential buyer might want to check court records to get a feeling if a builder has been litigated by previous buyers. Unfortunately, many end in settlements without the story coming out.

Check to see if a Naval Architect was involved in designing the boat. The most successful and most desired boat designs have a Naval Architect behind them.

Before buying the boat, READ READ READ the contract and assess how willing you might be to go to court if the builder doesn't deliver a quality product or doesn't fully comply with the terms of the contract. The ugly truth is most of us don't want to be involved in litigation even if we are completely in the right.

Insist the contract state the builder will comply with ABYC standards.

It is rare for almost everyone to agree on TF but in this thread, all seem to agree to get the boat surveyed. And keep in mind, your insurance company will most likely make you survey it anyway.
__________________
Buffalo Bluff Light 28
Donsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 04:07 PM   #17
Guru
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
City: Port Credit
Country: Ontario
Vessel Name: DIRT FREE
Vessel Model: Benford Fantail 38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,390
Myself and two surveyor friends have been going to the Toronto boat show together for around 25yrs/. our goal is to find a cruising type boat that complies with Transport Canada legal requirements and ABYC Standards.
We have not found one yet, not even the ones that claim to be built "using" ABYC Standards.

Note that when you see that ABYC label on a new boat it does not say "Built to ABYC Standards" It says " Built Using ABYC Standards" and people wonder why I'm a little cynical.
__________________
If you can live with the consequences, go for it - wg
Y'am what y'am an' thats' all that y'am - Popeye
I had an allergic reality - Jillie the Bean
boatpoker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 05:01 PM   #18
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,664
BP

Sounds like you are ready to go into the boat building business and show how it is done to your personal acceptance level. BTW, are ABYC guidelines standards or recommendations? Then Euro and Australian guidelines for those locale built boats. Now Transport Canada enters the fray. Whew!
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 05:19 PM   #19
Guru
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
City: Port Credit
Country: Ontario
Vessel Name: DIRT FREE
Vessel Model: Benford Fantail 38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
BP

Sounds like you are ready to go into the boat building business and show how it is done to your personal acceptance level. BTW, are ABYC guidelines standards or recommendations? Then Euro and Australian guidelines for those locale built boats. Now Transport Canada enters the fray. Whew!
Many ABYC Standards are required by Transport Canada and they have been trying to do away with their own standards for years and replace them entirely with ABYC. The problem has been they are unable to get Quebec to agree to French translations. My point is simply that no builder I have ever seen builds to the required Transport Canada standards or ABYC Standards even tho' they say (imply) that they do.
__________________
If you can live with the consequences, go for it - wg
Y'am what y'am an' thats' all that y'am - Popeye
I had an allergic reality - Jillie the Bean
boatpoker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2019, 07:45 PM   #20
Member
 
City: East Dennis
Country: USA
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miz Trom View Post
- PKPet
Hi PKPet:


Would it be possible to get more details? Are you having a new Nauset 33 built, or some other brand?


I ask because if you are having, perhaps, a new center console built, then yes, a survey before final payment is a good idea.


If you are having a new trawler or cruiser built, i.e. a boat that includes all of the liveaboard and safety systems necessary for long term cruising, my response will be more in depth.


Cheers,
Pea


I had the Nauset built in 1997. I am retiring in 2 years and would like to cruise with friends and still continue to fish for tuna and strippers. My new boat needs to be 40 ft with 2 staterooms and a cockpit designed to fish. Unfortunately I canít find one that cruises and fishes. Hence I am designing a boat with Nauset. A boat unfortunately canít do all things well.
__________________

PKPet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012