Open Flame on Dock

[catalinajack]

Not to nit pick here but thought I'd add a view from a retired firefighter. A grill (gas or otherwise) is not an "open flame", if it has a lid. Any flair up can be controlled by closing the lid and shutting off the fuel. Now, a crab cooker is an open flame for sure.

I assume most marinas that have these rules say "no grilling" in addition to no open flames or you'd have a pretty good argument.

Thank you! My gas grill is a Camp Chef Somerset II. No open flame. It has two fairly large circular burners with a grate overhead. The grilling is done via an add-on that is placed over the burners. The burners haet its steel bottom providing radiant heat (as does charcoal) to cook the food. The never sees a flame. Plus, there is a cover for the grilling surface. The fact is that gas grills have less of an open flame than any home gas stove or propane galley.

Another responder observed that insurance companies would ban them if they thought it was a significant risk. They don't which is bery significant. Unlike us who only have access to anectdotal evidence, insurance actuaries and underwriters have access to a large body of evidence yet our insurers dont prohibit grills. I think that is very telling.

 

[Mule]

I use a rod holder mounted Weber 1200. Great grill. Banning gas grills with a lid is just plain silly. What makes me nervous is an inboard gasoline powered boat next to me. Double that anxiety if a mechanics cart is next to it on the pier.
While I am sure a fire has been caused by a gas grill on a boat sometime, somewhere I have not heard of it.
I have heard of gasoline boats blowing up and propane blow up due to collection in of propane in the bilge. Those two instances are not uncommon. But grills, especially on the boat, mounted on the rail?? Nope!

 

[BandB]

I use a rod holder mounted Weber 1200. Great grill. Banning gas grills with a lid is just plain silly. What makes me nervous is an inboard gasoline powered boat next to me. Double that anxiety if a mechanics cart is next to it on the pier.
While I am sure a fire has been caused by a gas grill on a boat sometime, somewhere I have not heard of it.
I have heard of gasoline boats blowing up and propane blow up due to collection in of propane in the bilge. Those two instances are not uncommon. But grills, especially on the boat, mounted on the rail?? Nope!

Mounted on the rail, covered, both variables that help but not all gas grills are mounted on the rail and many people grill with them open. Fires caused by grills, I can only specifically point to two and I neither was mounted on a rail and I doubt either one was covered. One was gas, one was charcoal. I'm sure anyone can guess on the charcoal one. Typical toss some more starter fluid on it. Both were on houseboats, both were on Lake Cumberland. They were at two separate marinas. They occurred about a year apart. Now there have been other fires there for different reasons too, ranging from people working on gas engines to smoking to leaving pots on the stove to unknown causes. Lake Cumberland is the center of houseboating in the eastern US.

Now, I'm not presenting this as evidence of dangers of grills as it's more evidence of dangers of houseboats, especially older ones. The marinas there have done a lot to try to prevent future problems, including an onsite fire boat, requiring moving the boat to a separate dock for engine work, removing houseboats from the old covered docks (building new safer covered docks now in progress). That's the problem. We know it has happened. However, we do not know the statistical likelihood in any situation. Lake Cumberland is like no other with the percentage of houseboats and then combine that with a high percentage of them being rentals.

So, we just follow the rules and stay happy and we expect others to follow them too. I happen to know that the owners of one of the Cumberland marinas that had the fire from the grill is one of the marina groups that does not allow any gas or charcoal grills to be used at the docks at any of their marinas. I don't know if it was their decision or their insurer's.

As an aside, all nine marinas on Lake Cumberland received damage from the storms in January 2016. Biggest problem was boathouse roofs collapsing it seems.

 

[MYTraveler]

Mounted on the rail, covered, both variables that help but not all gas grills are mounted on the rail and many people grill with them open.

Life is full of risks. I get enough pleasure out of grilling on board that I happily take whatever risk comes from using my gas grill, which is mounted in a firebox. In fact, I often walk away from it while cooking, the only reason I keep an eye on it is so that I don't burn my meat. In fact, sometimes I intentionally encourage flare ups by leaving the lid open, especially if rotisserieing a nice prime rib or something similar. The way my grill is situated (including that it is mounted in a fire box), and based on having cooked on it hundreds of times / hours, I am persuaded that the fire risk is absolutely negligible. In any event, I don't think a rail mount is necessarily the safest way to go.

 

[Benthic2]

I don't think anyone is denying that there is some level of risk involved in grilling. The issue for me is where you draw the line for acceptable risk. If a marina decides that the level of risk for grilling is unacceptable, then ALL activities with a greater risk must also be unacceptable, and therefore prohibited or their risk reduction plan makes no sense.

I would assume that all of the following activities pose a greater risk of liability than grilling:

Smoking
Refueling
Alcohol Consumption
Swimming
Firearms
Operating a vessel in high winds
going barefoot
fishing from the docks

For me its the lack of logic I find troubling. How can they allow some activities and not others that pose a danger.

( for the extremely anal: I don't have any facts to back up risk levels associated with those activities.....I made some assumptions which you are welcome to question)

 

[psneeld]

Like many boating emergencies discussed here, too many jump to the disastrous end of the spectrum.

Ok, flareup.....big deal, close the lid, spray your beer on it or a million other methods to knock the flames down.

Same with the other issues.

I will bet some of the marinas that prohibit open flames are coneheaded enough to let relatively new yardworkers use propsne torches on shrinkwrap every year. Now that is safety minded.

Again, all I can say is ....regulate bad behavior or dangerous setups rather than punishing the safe.

Just an exame of lousy common sense and poor leadership on the marinas or their insurers.

 

[Lou_tribal]

I suspect that marina bans on barbecuing in the open has as much to do with drifting smoke and cooking odors as anything else.

This is certainly one of the main reason and even before security...

L.

 

[koliver]

As I read through this thread I had to wonder, just what is wrong with the reasoning given for condemning all BBQs.
I know there must be some that have an open flame, but since the proliferation of Propane BBQs has virtually eliminated Briquette BBQs on boats, I haven't seen an open flame. Certainly not on the SeaBQ, Magma or other high end propane BBQs. Never a flare-up on any decent propane unit.
I well remember flare-ups from impatiently trying to get the Charcoal to light and tossing in too much lighter fluid, but thankfully, one doesn't have to do that any more.

 

[tadhana]

In this discussion concerns the use of grills on docks and the use of grills on boats have been commingled. I decided to look into what NFPA 303 Fire Protection Standard for Marinas and Boatyards had published on this topic. NFPA prohibits the use of PORTABLE cooking equipment on boats and on docks. NFPA and ABYC specifically permit the use of permanently mounted gas grills onboard boats if designed, manufactured and installed in compliance with ABYC standards. The final comment from HALE, that is me.

SUBMITTER: Gene Spinazola, Gene Spinazola, PE & Assoc.
RECOMMENDATION: Revise text to read as follows:
The use of any form of hibachis, charcoal, wood or gas type portable cooking equipment shall be limited to specifically
authorized areas where they can be used safely (not on the docks or on boats in the berthing area or near flammables).
SUBSTANTIATION: The original section did not make mention portable gas grills and made no mention of the use of portable cooking equipment in the berthing area. Marina operators need specific mention of both of these items in order to enforce this standard.
COMMITTEE ACTION: Accept.
NUMBER OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS ELIGIBLE TO VOTE: 25
VOTE ON COMMITTEE ACTION:
AFFIRMATIVE: 21
NEGATIVE: 1
NOT RETURNED: 3 Douglas, Hastings, Proctor
EXPLANATION OF NEGATIVE:
ROBERTS: This change would eliminate the use of gas grills that are mounted on handrails. I feel that since gas grills can be extinguished instantly, this type of grill when mounted to the vessel should not be excluded from use. The qualifying factor would be, is the grill "portable" or fixed to a rail. Units that contain their own fuel tank, as long as mounted when in use, should be allowed.
COMMENT ON AFFIRMATIVE:
HALE: Committee needs to define portable. Otherwise a permanently installed rail mounted cooker which is installed in compliance with NFPA 302 and ABYC would be prohibited.

 

[psneeld]

So an electric skillet, toaster, slow cooker are all prohibited?

Are these people for real?

 

[tadhana]

So an electric skillet, toaster, slow cooker are all prohibited?

Are these people for real?

Those devices are permitted. They are electric, not coal wood or gas. And yes these people are for real. The National Fire PRotection Association writes the standards which become adopted as the fire codes nationwide. They are recognized nationwide for their expertise in the field of fire prevention, and protection. The NFPA committee includes representation of marinas and boat builders, as well as users.

 

[psneeld]

Sorry, probably forgot heat source...my bad.