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Old 06-02-2016, 06:03 PM   #101
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Your community may be small but a very large boating community that comes from near by. I have bought fuel (GAS) from them many times and also keep my boat there in the fall, they have always treated us well. I say like other they want your business because I do not know of any other place around there that sells fuel. How did the stripe come out?
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:47 PM   #102
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The thing that puzzles me is whether it is even possible that OP was the only one to receive a load of really bad fuel (and gasoline, which is not nearly as sensitive to water as diesel), especially from a self-serve place. If their docks' tanks were full of water, there should have been others that had OP's same experience, that same day. And since OP's is a very small community, word should have spread quickly. In fact, OP's mechanic, being highly regarded and one of few, should have received several calls on the same problem. Especially since the boat is new to OP, isn't it a significant possibilitythat something on the boat went wrong to cause the problem. It was said above that we will never know, and that is likely true. But if OP suffers the same fate again any time soon, I would conclude that the dock's fuel was not the problem.
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:54 PM   #103
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This does interest me as well, given all the variables.

I may give a quick call over there tomorrow to see what the guys at the dock think.
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Old 06-03-2016, 10:04 AM   #104
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Given the quantity of water, I agree that their very large tanks did not have significant contamination. Basically out of an approximate 42 gallon fuel purchase, approximately 3 gallons of water were found. I have a single fuel tank of 150 gallon capacity. the bottom of the tank is sloped to match the hull shape (bottom 3 inches of the tank is essentially a triangle). My engine intakes are dead bottom to this lowest point. Based on volume calculation for the tank geometry and location of intakes, my intakes are flooded approximately 2 gallons liquid level in the tank. Therefore, if 3 gallons of water had been present in my fuel system prior to the fueling operation, my engines would not have been running to get me to the fuel dock much less running for the two plus hours of cruising on the river prior to entering the fuel dock.
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Old 06-03-2016, 11:44 AM   #105
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This is likely one of those things that will remain a mystery. If it never happens again (hopefully) then it was probably the fuel you picked up. Even so, there is no way to tell for sure unless the fuel dock found contamination or others experienced the same problem.
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Old 06-03-2016, 01:42 PM   #106
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Your community may be small but a very large boating community that comes from near by. I have bought fuel (GAS) from them many times and also keep my boat there in the fall, they have always treated us well. I say like other they want your business because I do not know of any other place around there that sells fuel. How did the stripe come out?
Kart: I've always used the Fuel Dock at Pass Manchac, it's under new management and has 24 hour diesel/gas, payw/ credit card and fill up. No fuel issues in 8 years. Pass Manchac is the pass between Ponchartrain and Maurepas, Hwy 55 crosses there.
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Old 06-03-2016, 01:57 PM   #107
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Kart: I've always used the Fuel Dock at Pass Manchac, it's under new management and has 24 hour diesel/gas, payw/ credit card and fill up. No fuel issues in 8 years. Pass Manchac is the pass between Ponchartrain and Maurepas, Hwy 55 crosses there.
Next to Middendorf's?
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Old 06-03-2016, 03:19 PM   #108
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Yes, coming from y'alls slip it's on the right (North) side as you approach the Hwy 55 bridge, right up next to the train tracks. If you go under the bridge like to get to Mittendorfs you've gone too far. I haven't been there since it was sold but need to pretty soon.
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Old 06-03-2016, 04:17 PM   #109
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Yes, coming from y'alls slip it's on the right (North) side as you approach the Hwy 55 bridge, right up next to the train tracks. If you go under the bridge like to get to Mittendorfs you've gone too far. I haven't been there since it was sold but need to pretty soon.
Ok that's the one I was thinking of. I noticed it when we went to Middendorf's the other day.
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Old 06-03-2016, 04:58 PM   #110
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Surprised you do not have pick up tubes and tank just empties from the bottom. WOW with the placement of the pickup and using all the fuel in the tank I think you will need very good filtration. Does the gen. pick up in the same place?
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Old 06-03-2016, 05:06 PM   #111
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Yes, all three engines pick up from connection at the top of the tank with tubes that extend to within an inch of bottom of tank.
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Old 06-03-2016, 05:09 PM   #112
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Oki, so here is an ideal. Stars's bought the boat and it probably has not been run or fueled in a long time. 'IF' the tanks are baffled
(which a 150 gallon tank could be), water could possible accumulate via condensation in the tank or rain through the fill cap and collect in baffled areas over the years that it sat at the dock as a live- aboard.. Then, when new owner (starman) filled the tanks, the accumulated water was pushed towards the bottom of the tank near the fuel pickup.
I am not sure if this is possible as I have no idea how the tank is constructed or it's orientation, but I thought I would throw it out there. It's hard to imagine a fuel supplier giving Stars the contaminated fuel and they are they only customer affected (that we know of).

For what it is worth , I have a truck that kept getting water in the fuel, I was able to drain it out of the fuel filter as the filter has that capability with a warning light. However, I found that it got into the tank through an unconnected line on top of the tank and when you drove it in the rain, water would accumulate on top of the tank and find its way in.
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Old 06-03-2016, 05:20 PM   #113
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StarsMan is the gen. tube the same length as the engine tubes.
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Old 06-03-2016, 05:42 PM   #114
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Kartracer-yes the gen tube is the same length.
Bligh-that is a possibility which is why I didn't push the issue with the marina owner and agreed to basically absorb the mechanic charge in exchange for the fuel cost. At then end of the day, no damage to the engines, and I was already planning additional service on them anyway so it all ended up ok. I am not going to say I will never fuel up there again but I definitely won't until I have installed mitigating facilities including fuel water separators and a couple of empty 5 gallon gas can that the initial pumping can go into.
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Old 06-03-2016, 05:55 PM   #115
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http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Funnel-AF8C...ds=baja+filter
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Old 06-03-2016, 09:51 PM   #116
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Given the quantity of water, I agree that their very large tanks did not have significant contamination. Basically out of an approximate 42 gallon fuel purchase, approximately 3 gallons of water were found. I have a single fuel tank of 150 gallon capacity. the bottom of the tank is sloped to match the hull shape (bottom 3 inches of the tank is essentially a triangle). My engine intakes are dead bottom to this lowest point. Based on volume calculation for the tank geometry and location of intakes, my intakes are flooded approximately 2 gallons liquid level in the tank. Therefore, if 3 gallons of water had been present in my fuel system prior to the fueling operation, my engines would not have been running to get me to the fuel dock much less running for the two plus hours of cruising on the river prior to entering the fuel dock.
Totally agree. Like you set-up, mine also always draws from the bottom of the twin tanks, so any significant water in them would quickly overwhelm the primary separator volume and kill the engine in very short order. Has never happened, and I only ever get a teaspoonful out of the separator, yet I theoretically break the rules re condensation by never having full tanks, so even the so-called gremlin of condensation appears not to matter.

There is no way you accumulated several gallons of water that way. So,if there is no possibility of a leak of rainwater, someone accidentally putting water in the fuel filler, or someone accidentally connecting a water line to the tank somehow - the mind boggles as to how - then it must have come in via the fuel.

Is it possible, just by freak of bad luck timing, you filled up just as their main storage tank was getting really low, and you sucked out years worth of water contamination usually never reached..? It would depend on the pump pick-up system in place in those ground tanks. But because water intrusion is more likely in ground tanks than others, it would be interesting to see how their pick-up is positioned. From fixed near the bottom, or on some sort of floating device, so it sucks fuel from nearer the top most of the time - until it gets really low, that is..?

I can't remember seeing if that possibility was canvassed. They would deny it anyway, of course, but I wonder...
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Old 06-03-2016, 10:22 PM   #117
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Totally agree. Like you set-up, mine also always draws from the bottom of the twin tanks, so any significant water in them would quickly overwhelm the primary separator volume and kill the engine in very short order. Has never happened, and I only ever get a teaspoonful out of the separator, yet I theoretically break the rules re condensation by never having full tanks, so even the so-called gremlin of condensation appears not to matter.

There is no way you accumulated several gallons of water that way. So,if there is no possibility of a leak of rainwater, someone accidentally putting water in the fuel filler, or someone accidentally connecting a water line to the tank somehow - the mind boggles as to how - then it must have come in via the fuel.

Is it possible, just by freak of bad luck timing, you filled up just as their main storage tank was getting really low, and you sucked out years worth of water contamination usually never reached..? It would depend on the pump pick-up system in place in those ground tanks. But because water intrusion is more likely in ground tanks than others, it would be interesting to see how their pick-up is positioned. From fixed near the bottom, or on some sort of floating device, so it sucks fuel from nearer the top most of the time - until it gets really low, that is..?

I can't remember seeing if that possibility was canvassed. They would deny it anyway, of course, but I wonder...
Ok so here is the dilemma for me. On one hand we have a fueling station that seems to have a good reputation of delivering fuel to many customers and likely has a sysyem to separate water from fuel. On the other hand we have a boat that hasnt left the dock , been run, or refueled in ages, maybe decades.
Sure the simple answer is the fueling station, but then again we are talking about a boat.
I'm sure stars has other things to worry about with his new boat at this point, but I'm not convinced it was the fueling station.
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Old 06-03-2016, 11:03 PM   #118
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Oki, so here is an ideal. Stars's bought the boat and it probably has not been run or fueled in a long time. 'IF' the tanks are baffled
(which a 150 gallon tank could be), water could possible accumulate via condensation in the tank or rain through the fill cap and collect in baffled areas over the years that it sat at the dock as a live- aboard.. Then, when new owner (starman) filled the tanks, the accumulated water was pushed towards the bottom of the tank near the fuel pickup.
I am not sure if this is possible as I have no idea how the tank is constructed or it's orientation, but I thought I would throw it out there. It's hard to imagine a fuel supplier giving Stars the contaminated fuel and they are they only customer affected (that we know of).

For what it is worth , I have a truck that kept getting water in the fuel, I was able to drain it out of the fuel filter as the filter has that capability with a warning light. However, I found that it got into the tank through an unconnected line on top of the tank and when you drove it in the rain, water would accumulate on top of the tank and find its way in.
That was a possibility we discussed the night it happened with some of the guys here at our marina. We all sat around under the tree tossing around ideas. One is a diesel mechanic and another an airline mechanic and another one an engineer and the other guy was the one who was out with us. All of these guys are very experienced boaters. My hubby is a chemical engineer. They all went down into the ER and had a look around.
We all kind of came to the conclusion that that scenario would have been more of a possibility had we been low on fuel to begin with.
We didn't need any fuel when we got it, we mainly did it to give hubby practice backing into fuel dock. We had roughly half a tank.
Also, in that scenario, the sloshing around that occurred just from running the boat up and down the river for a few hours would have done the same thing.
We also brought up this possibility to the mechanic and he discounted that idea. But we're willing to say that although unlikely, it is a remote possibility. We also asked him for an "official" verification that water wasn't getting in through the fill cap and according to him its not.

To recap the events leading up to this.
We ran the boat for several hours during sea trial.
After purchase, the boat was moved to our slip.
Two days later we took it out for another few hours.
The day this happened we took it out...cruised up the river and docked it at the city wall while we went and got a bite to eat. Got back on the boat and ran it up the river to the lake, turned around and came back and then stopped for fuel.
Never a single problem one during any of these trips.
Didn't get 100 yds off the fuel dock after putting fuel in when all 3 engines shut down basically simultaneously.
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Old 06-03-2016, 11:28 PM   #119
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I'm sure stars has other things to worry about with his new boat at this point
Yeehaw....like the two leaks we've been waiting to make an appearance that finally did last night in the hard rains.
We knew about them, but weren't 100% sure the source.
One was a very simple fix that hubby took care of this morning. The other we have temporarily fixed until this bad weather clears out and hubby can do it right.
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Old 06-03-2016, 11:31 PM   #120
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Ok so here is the dilemma for me. On one hand we have a fueling station that seems to have a good reputation of delivering fuel to many customers and likely has a sysyem to separate water from fuel. On the other hand we have a boat that hasnt left the dock , been run, or refueled in ages, maybe decades.
Sure the simple answer is the fueling station, but then again we are talking about a boat.
I'm sure stars has other things to worry about with his new boat at this point, but I'm not convinced it was the fueling station.
Oh the boat was used by the PO. Not very often, but they did take it out every once in a while. I have the receipt from the last time he had fuel delivered...id have to go dig it out to see when it was but it wasn't all that long ago.
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