One Hose Clamp or Two???

[Comodave]

From my understanding the Coast Guard is enforcing two on any through hull. If your boat sinks and its due to a single hose clamp on your through hull good luck getting an insurance settlement. Someone I know at the marina had their sail boat flood/sink due to a 3/4" through hull hose clamp failing. Insurance did not cover anything due to it being a "maintenance" issue. The yard now owns the boat.

No, this is not a CG enfotcement item. Some insurance does not cover damages if caused by lack of maintenance. Some companies cover the damage caused by a failure but not the failed item.

 

[boatpoker]

From my understanding the Coast Guard is enforcing two on any through hull. If your boat sinks and its due to a single hose clamp on your through hull good luck getting an insurance settlement. Someone I know at the marina had their sail boat flood/sink due to a 3/4" through hull hose clamp failing. Insurance did not cover anything due to it being a "maintenance" issue. The yard now owns the boat.

The USCG can only enforce the "law" as covered under the Code of Federal Regulations Title 33 and Title 46. There is no such law in those regulations

 

[Steve DAntonio]

There are now a fair number of non-perf knock-offs so I would urge only ABA or AWAB branded non-perforated clamps. We have not yet seen either of these brands fail..[/QUOTE]

Agreed, you can't be too careful with selection. The Norma Group owns Breeze and ABA, and they have a number of hose clamps types within those brands, 304 and 316 stainless and others, so select carefully. AWAB offers the interlocking T bolt but I suspect others do as well now.

Use a magnet to make certain they are all stainless, and lube the threads on the T bolt to prevent galling.

 

[CEC]

I don't believe the USCG has any authority on regulating hose clamps on recreational boats. Would love to see the CFR.

Not sure if its law, but its in the CFR. I was informed they want to see two clamps at the through hull. This is what I see may not pertain to rec boats but whatever..

(B) Flexible hose designed for use
with hose clamps may be installed with
two clamps, at both ends of the hose,
which:
(​

​

​

​

1) Do not rely on the spring tension
of the clamp for compressive force; and
(2) Are installed beyond the bead or
flare or over the serrations of the mating​

spud, pipe, or hose fitting

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title46-vol7/pdf/CFR-2011-title46-vol7-sec182-730.pdf

 

[psneeld]

Not sure if its law, but its in the CFR. I was informed they want to see two clamps at the through hull. This is what I see may not pertain to rec boats but whatever..

(B) Flexible hose designed for use
with hose clamps may be installed with
two clamps, at both ends of the hose,
which:
(​

1) Do not rely on the spring tension
of the clamp for compressive force; and
(2) Are installed beyond the bead or
flare or over the serrations of the mating​

spud, pipe, or hose fitting

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title46-vol7/pdf/CFR-2011-title46-vol7-sec182-730.pdf

Pretty sure that is for commercial passenger vessels.


The use of the word "may" instead of shall also applies.


Who "informed" you? Did you see a reference on an official document?

 

[Larry M]

Title 46 - Shipping
Chapter I - COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)
Subchapter T - SMALL PASSENGER VESSELS (UNDER 100 GROSS TONS)
Part 182 - MACHINERY INSTALLATION
Subpart G - Piping Systems
Section 182.730 - Nonferrous metallic piping materials.

 

[CEC]

Pretty sure that is for commercial passenger vessels.


The use of the word "may" instead of shall also applies.


Who "informed" you? Did you see a reference on an official document?

First it was survey for ins. Then I asked a friend who is CG res. and he said yes we "like" to see that on all vessels. My point is some things that are in there (com, rec whatever) are easy to do, so why not just do it the way they like to see it done? This is one of those things for me anyway..

Most ins. have a statement to the effect of vessel damage due to poor maintenance is not covered. If your boat sinks due to having a leaking hose on a through hull with one hose clamp, its just adding to their side of the case against paying out. It’s a $6 extra clamp on a few through hulls, I don't need to decipher CFR's to help me make that decision.

 

[boatpoker]

Title 46 - Shipping
Chapter I - COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)
Subchapter T - SMALL PASSENGER VESSELS (UNDER 100 GROSS TONS)
Part 182 - MACHINERY INSTALLATION
Subpart G - Piping Systems
Section 182.730 - Nonferrous metallic piping materials.

Does not apply to pleasure craft.

 

[boatpoker]

First it was survey for ins. Then I asked a friend who is CG res. and he said yes we "like" to see that on all vessels. My point is some things that are in there (com, rec whatever) are easy to do, so why not just do it the way they like to see it done? This is one of those things for me anyway..

Most ins. have a statement to the effect of vessel damage due to poor maintenance is not covered. If your boat sinks due to having a leaking hose on a through hull with one hose clamp, its just adding to their side of the case against paying out. It’s a $6 extra clamp on a few through hulls, I don't need to decipher CFR's to help me make that decision.

No you don't need to decipher the CFR to help you make that decision but neither should you state that it is in the CFR's when it is not.

 

[Comodave]

The CG does not inspect recreational boats for 2 hose clamps on through hulls. Yes they may like to see that but there is no legal requirement for 2 clamps. Is it good to have 2 clamps, absolutely, just not required. Your surveyor may write it up if you don’t have 2 clamps. That is his/her opinion. Your insurance company may say you have to fix anything that the surveyor writes up, that is their right just as it is your right to find another insurance company. Surveyors are not all great or not all bad. They each have their hot buttons and will write them up. Just because they write something up doesn’t make it a legal requirement.

 

[Northern Spy]

Shrug. It's only a good practice if the hose barb is long enough to support two clamps anyways. Pretty sure my seawater pump only has room for one clamp.

 

[Larry M]

Has anyone had a hose actually come off a hose barb because the clamp failed assuming the hose and barb we sized correctly to start with?

 

[CMS]

Has anyone had a hose actually come off a hose barb because the clamp failed assuming the hose and barb we sized correctly to start with?

One of our customers replaced his head hoses and used a single perforated hose clamp. Sometime during the season the clamp failed/split and the hose began leaking badly. (he also did not close his seacocks when he left the boat)

The bilge pump eventually killed the bank and during the night the boat sank to the bottom and was considered a total loss. I think he saved $2.60 to loose a $72,000.00 investment. We still have that clamp kicking around the shop and we show to other customers when discussing best practices for below waterline installations....

 

[psneeld]

There is info on the net that debunks the theory that 2 clamps are necessary for a variety of reasons.


If one has experience and thinks through each hose setup, it's not hard to see why.


Following urban ldgends and "what everybody else does" to me is no way to stay safe.


And I still disagree that insurance companies willy nilly deny claims due to lack of maintenance....there's more to that story.

 

[FF]

A Screwdriver can sometimes be a hassle to tighten the clamps.

Many times with an electricians screw driver one can remove the bit and use just the handle.

Do not crush the hose!

 

[psneeld]

Has anyone had a hose actually come off a hose barb because the clamp failed assuming the hose and barb we sized correctly to start with?

The data I have read suggests in some cases 2 clamps can actually cause problems and failure of a single resulting in serious incidents isn't significantly higher because of the clamp failure. Like many studies who knows how accurate it is, if I find it, I will post it.


Look at so many applications that are under pressure (which many boat applications are suction or very low pressure) which only use one clamp.


When was the last time you popped a hose on a land vehicle despite the cheesy clamps often used there.


Yes I have many double clamped hoses, though I have to say it's more out of worry about surveys, insurance and peer pressure than worrying about sinking because of hose clamps.


Far more things to worry about in my experience.... But my higher power surge, connected directly to the sea hoses do get doubles and routine inspection along with the hose and seacock.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

It's not widely advertised (their website has been under construction for as long as I can recall) but you can buy hose clamp kits directly from AWAB.

The more insidious issue with perforate lamps, beyond cutting into the hose (I actually don't believe this will cause a failure) is they are more susceptible to stress corrosion cracking. As the clamp is tightened micro cracks develop between the perforations, these become a toe-hold for crevice corrosion. Example photo attached.

Once again, if you can't fit two clamps, with a gap between them, and with both bearing fully on the barb beneath, don't use two clamps, use one high quality clamp. Engine raw water pumps are a great example, their barbs are often two short for two clamps, and yet I routinely see twin clamps installed, with the second clamp crushing and damaging the hose, it does more harm than good. Boat builders and some techs seem hell-bent on using twin clamps regardless of whether or not they can be properly supported. Example photo attached.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Since we are talking about clamps, I used these covers on all my clamp ends. Eliminated the blood letting. You can find these on Amazon.

Clamp-Aid® Hose clamp end guards marine parts auto parts

 

[Comodave]

The AWAB kit I bought came with a flexible driver so you can tighten and loosen if you don’t have a direct shot at the clamp screw. Also came with red plastic covers for the pigtail of the clamp for scratch protection.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

The AWAB kit I bought came with a flexible driver so you can tighten and loosen if you don’t have a direct shot at the clamp screw. Also came with red plastic covers for the pigtail of the clamp for scratch protection.

The red plastic (PVC actually) covers that come with the AWAB kit are far different than the Clamp-Aid variety, which are silicone. The PVC covers come off the clamps very easily, I've brushed by or sat on them and they slide right off. As it happens, they are exactly the right size to fit into the larger submersible bilge pump strainers, where they jam the strainer. I'd ditch the PVC covers and go with Clamp-Aid.