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Old 07-13-2015, 08:03 PM   #21
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He felt that there was a lot of small things and the big one with the tanks. He did not complete the report. He said that every window was actively leaking, That leaking of course lead to a fair amount of interior wood damage. Much of it laminate, that would need to be replaced not refinished. He couldnt find a seacock that would operate. There was a milk jug collecting fuel from somwhere. I talked to him more and he said that its not over the cliff yet but if I couldnt do much of the work myself it wasnt worth it in his opinion. I told all that to the sellers and they knocked another 30% off the price lol. He is going to finish the survey on Thurs, with me there. He had kinda scared me away at first but at this price I am still considering it. My wife and I sanded and painted the topsides of the sailboat 2 summers ago and it came out great. We got some skillz ;-)
Guess the important thing now is how you want to use the boat. If you want to use it to work on, then that is one thing. I'm not being facetious with that, since some people do indeed get a whole lot of joy out of just working on their boat. But if you want to use it to get out on the water and enjoy in the traditional way, then you might want to really give it some serious though. And by the way, if the seller dropped it 30% that quick, he will drop it more, I would strongly suspect.
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:01 PM   #22
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jwnall said: "And by the way, if the seller dropped it 30% that quick, he will drop it more, I would strongly suspect."

Concur. Whatever the sales price winds up being, for any boat, it's always just the beginning. In order for low purchase price to offset deferred maintenance, repairs and restoration, a buyer should expect to recover that investment through long, happy days of using the boat. That money is unlikely to come back to you on resale.

When the surveyor finishes, he'll (presumably) provide a cost estimate to address the boat's unmet needs. A pragmatic strategy: add that to the purchase price, put a value on your time, and then take a good leisurely look around at what else is available for that money. If this boat be "the one," you'll know it in your gut then, but you won't be depending entirely on your gut.

Bon chance, and please keep the updates coming!
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:21 PM   #23
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Sounds to me like emotion and rationalization is getting in the way of good decision making. Death by 1,000 cuts means financial disaster. Don't walk away, run as fast as you can. There's another boat waiting for you. Howard
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:10 AM   #24
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All fair points. Im sure that there is a little bit of emotion involved. We love the layout of this boat. It's perfect for how we want to use the boat. I feel like its worth the price of the survey to have ALL the info and make a decision from there. The boat has a lot of upside imo. I really like the factory glass decks. It has twin fords with low hours and obviously twins are better than single (haha jk ). The boat happens to be in the boat yard that we keep our boat (no hauling etc). As for the price. It is literally 1/4 of the lowest comp that the surveyor found. To me that means that even if I had to put double or triple the purchase price in to it I would still be in a reasonable place. My wife is a school teacher (read: summer boat slave) who used to be a union construction worker. She loves to work on boats. Im pretty handy in mechanics, wood, and just took up sewing. (Made a bimini for the sailboat and it came out darn good if I do say so lol) So bottom line: Windows and seacocks, we have that in our bag of tricks. If the tanks do need replacement, we can swing that np. That would mean we end up with a trawler we consider perfect that has no leaky windows, no leaky decks, low engine hours and brand new gas tanks. All for maybe than half of the lowest "sold" price of this model boat. Am I way off?

I really appreciate all the comments and guidance. This board is awesome.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:16 AM   #25
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jwnall said:

Concur. Whatever the sales price winds up being, for any boat, it's always just the beginning. In order for low purchase price to offset deferred maintenance, repairs and restoration, a buyer should expect to recover that investment through long, happy days of using the boat. That money is unlikely to come back to you on resale.
I totally agree. We plan to eventually retire on to this (or another) boat. We figure we have the next 15 years to really get it where we want. =)
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:48 AM   #26
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If you continue on with this boat, I would have the surveyor come back do a complete survey and sea trial then take the survey call local yards and get several estimates to resolve all issues brought up on the survey, then add 30% for uh oh's. After that, if it doesn't give you a heart attack then go for it, but negotiate the price from those numbers.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:57 AM   #27
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Am I way off?
Maybe, maybe not. I am rather curious about the black iron tanks. You say the decks are factory glass but apparently moisture got to the tanks anyway. Are you certain about the decks?

It kind of reads like the survey will be completed without a sea trial. So, how do you know what kind of condition the engines are in? They could be as stuck as the seacocks.

Sounds like you and the mate are looking for a project so this might work out fine. I know a couple who bought a sailboat 15 years ago. They have sailed it 3 times and have worked on it almost every weekend. It was a beautiful boat. They sold it (maybe I should say gave it away for a small pittance) and bought another slightly larger sailboat for twice as much. Yep, they sailed it once and are working on it almost every weekend. Allegedly, some day REAL SOON NOW they will retire and sail away.....errr, if they don't decide to do more work on it.

Some folks are just gluttons for punishment....no accusation intended.
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Old 07-14-2015, 09:28 AM   #28
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I am sure about the decks. I am not sure about the tanks. They could be totally fine. (every once in a while even a blind squirrel finds a nut? lol) Surveyor said there was a milk jug collecting diesel but didnt know where it was coming from. I think that might have been what sent him running lol. Water could come in from fill fittings that need to be re-bedded. Im taking it one step at a time. He is going to finish the survey on Thursday. If he doesn't find anything else major, then I will move on to an engine survey and sea trial. No point in arranging those if the hull is full of blisters etc.

I guess that is the whole point. Until he finishes up the survey, I just dont have enough info to decide to continue or move on
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Old 07-14-2015, 09:46 AM   #29
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By ignoring the obvious faults and surveyor advice, you could end up with a vessel that is an even more difficult sale to the next potential buyer. Unless of course you put considerable money into it likely exceeding the cost of a proper vessel purchased initially.

Then there is the time factor, are you wanting to be a rebuilder or a boater? Have a friend who is going through this exact thing on his 28 year old President 43. Invested $$ so far exceed the purchase price and still climbing.
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Old 07-14-2015, 11:55 AM   #30
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Here's the basic truth

Buy the boat that you like in the best condition for the least amount of money you can find.Unless your looking for an expensive hobby project don't think you can save money with a bargain boat that needs repair. Every repair you make will cost you more to do than finding a boat that doesn't need that repair and paying for in the purchase price. Whether it resin, screws, wire , wood , or hose your going to be paying far more for it than than buying a boat that doesn't need that repair. I have been working on boats for dreamers that end costing them far more than they ever dreamed. Don't get caught up in the the I can fix this and I can fix that and she can do this syndrome. Unless you both agree that the project boat is the recreation your looking for don't get fooled into thinking your going to get your particular dream boat at a bargain. You may end up, if your talented, with your dream boat, but it won't be a bargain. I work on these dreams all the time. Only I get paid to do it.
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:44 PM   #31
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Sailor I commend your optimism.
Also being a "frugal Yankee" I know where you are coming from. Nothing you found yet would be a show stopper to me.
Sounds like this particular boat has a lot of positives for you. Just make sure to properly weigh the negatives before you make the final decision.
I know plenty of folks who have taken on "fixer uppers".
So finish them, some don't. You will have to make that call.
Either way, best of luck! And if you're back on the Block 1st week of August, we'll be on a private mooring opposite Payne's and the Basin. Stop by.
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:59 PM   #32
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Anyone here had a positive experience in taking on a project boat that upon first blush the surveyor walked and said don't do it?
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Old 07-14-2015, 01:29 PM   #33
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Anyone here had a positive experience in taking on a project boat that upon first blush the surveyor walked and said don't do it?
Oh no. The surveyor did not say not to do it. What he said was that he wanted me to be there with him if he were to continue (I had a work emergency that day and couldnt get there). It clearly needs work and he said he didnt want to waste my $$ continuing the survey if I was looking for a turn key boat.

Jlenoard: I def might be there that week. If I am, I will certainly stop by. =) Remind me to tell you the story of the guy trying to dock in the basin last week. As he was steaming full speed in to the middle section on the west side, my wife said "wow, that guy must realllly know what he is doing to go in that fast" Alas, that was not the case ;-)
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Old 07-14-2015, 01:31 PM   #34
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It was kinda like this but with a much different outcome:

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Old 07-14-2015, 01:58 PM   #35
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Funny, I have such a different perspective on this discussion than I had even a year ago. This spring we bought a new-to-us 1996 boat in generally very good shape. The previous boat was also a generally good boat for its age, but it was a 1983 Carver. I like working on boats a lot, and to my surprise my to-do list for the newer boat is just as long as the old boat - but if I had my choice, I sure prefer the tasks now, like upgrading all the cabin lights to LED, instead of re-gluing the v-berth headliner monkey fur because it was starting to sag. There's boat work, and then there's boat work.
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Old 07-14-2015, 05:19 PM   #36
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A low price can cover a multitude of sins. You make money on the purchase price not the resale.

Surveyor sounds like a keeper.
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Old 07-15-2015, 12:29 PM   #37
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Yes

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Anyone here had a positive experience in taking on a project boat that upon first blush the surveyor walked and said don't do it?
I passed on a Hatteras 48LRC that is currently cruising in Mexico. The boat had so many issues including a delaminated deck that I passed on the boat. A marine electrician from Anacortes called me on it, I gave him my surveys and he came down and made an offer on it and got it for a third of what I had paid for a turn key boat. He delivered it back up Anacortes in March and spent several years refitting it and it's currently in Mexico cruising with his family. This guy had a lot of talent and a lot of industry contacts.
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Old 07-15-2015, 04:03 PM   #38
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Sailor,

You have gotten some really good advice.

From my perspective, just reading YOUR posts over the last few weeks, you are set on buying thus boat.

Read your last post. You go from many things wrong to just one thing and an unknown in your last post.

All Seacocks frozen.
Every window leaks.
Fuel leak somewhere.

These are not cosmetic problems.

These are indications of a boat that was NOT maintained even at some minimal level.

You are also jumping to a conclusion about the engines. What evidence do you have that the engines were maintained, even though nothing else was?

This boat sounds like a project boat that week never be finished.

How many of this type, model and layout rust you like so much are on the market?
Have you looked at them?

You sound like you and your wife really want to enjoy a boat on the water.

This boat isn't that.

Good luck in any case.

Don't worry, we'll still be around to remind you we told you so :-)

This week be a
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Old 07-15-2015, 05:14 PM   #39
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Don't worry, we'll still be around to remind you we told you so :-)
HAHAHAHA!! That will be the first time in my life I will have ever heard that.

I am not dead set on it. I just feel like there might be a good deal in there and that it has some real upside in certain areas. We have looked at every trawler around here. Travelling the east coast to search for boats has a cost too. This boat is already in the boatyard. It's got glass decks. I like glass decks. lol. We could easily keep the sailboat another year while we work on the trawler. I think I am almost more in love with the convenience of the whole thing. All that said, I am having some serious second thoughts right now. The seller started playing some games today and I may even cancel the survey for tomorrow. Here is how I saw the math. They want 20 for the boat. Figure another 20ish for tanks. Another 10 for putting around. We do the windows ourself etc. I think a 40' sundeck with a glass deck, non leaky windows and new tanks is worth 50. The other nice part is that I wouldn't have to lay it out in all one lump.

Make no mistake, I really appreciate all of the advice. Positive and Negative I don't know anywhere close to everything. =)
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Old 07-15-2015, 06:59 PM   #40
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Thanks for the update
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