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Old 02-12-2017, 05:34 PM   #1
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Older and 1st tier or newer but 2nd tier...

So I think many like me who are deciding what trawler to buy are considering this: Assuming you have a $300k budget and all else is the same as far as number of hours on engine and overall well maintained. Do you opt for an older tier 1 boat or newer tier 2 boat? Trawler would be used for coastal, ICW and occasional Bahamas trip.
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:11 PM   #2
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I am ignorant as to what tier 1 and tier 2 mean in this context.
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:25 PM   #3
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I was hoping not to have to mention specific brands. With all due respect if you don't know then you can't answer the question. There's obviously better quality boats then others just like autos. Maybe the question is too sensitive to ask as we all can be quite bias to what we own. If someone can chime in without naming names I would appreciate it otherwise maybe I should withdraw the question if I can.
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:45 PM   #4
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I think most would agree that the most important thing is the condition of the specific boat in question. That trumps a lot of age/hrs questions.

But to your question, I would probably favor the higher quality boat (what I think you mean by tier I vs tier II), even if the boat is older.
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:46 PM   #5
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Brand or 'make' names are nowhere near as important in boats as they might be with cars, as overall condition and how well maintained they are is the more important issue.

I would therefore suggest you realign your tier 1 & 2 to be more like...
tier 1 = older but bigger, and perhaps more extensively equiped, and...
tier 2 as newer, so therefore to come within budget, smaller and maybe less well equiped in terms of extra goodies like electric davits, radar, etc.

If that seems a better fit, then you might well apply the general wisdom of the forum which appears to be, "buy the newest vessel your budget will allow for that is big enough to do what you expect and wish to do with it. Bearing in mind that the smaller the vessel, the newer it can be and still stay within budget.

The flip side to that is if you want larger, better equiped and a brand thought of as 'higher quality', you are not only looking at much older, but virtually everything you have to do or have done will cost a lot more than smaller.
Just sayin'...after seeing twisted's post above...
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:01 PM   #6
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I think the assigned tiers are so often rumor and hearsay and nothing based on reality. Do you assign Bayliner to Tier 2? I sure see Bayliner owners having fewer problems than many boats you might assign to Tier 1. The initial price of the boat may well reflect luxury materials or ability to cross oceans but have nothing to do with quality and anticipated problems.
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:05 PM   #7
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Greetings,
Mr. NJ. Tier 1 or tier 2 diesels? Go ahead. Mention specific brands. I have no idea what you're trying to pussyfoot around. I've never heard of boat brands being refereed to as tiered...
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:19 PM   #8
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I'm guessin' he is referrin' to the newer all electronic engines as compared to the older mechanical diesels. As a firm believer in KISS, I'd stick with the all mechanical engines.
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:56 PM   #9
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So with everything being equal price, # of helms, heads, staterooms engines (# and brand) etc you would not take one manufacturer over another or just flip a coin?
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieFromNJ View Post
I was hoping not to have to mention specific brands. With all due respect if you don't know then you can't answer the question. There's obviously better quality boats then others just like autos. Maybe the question is too sensitive to ask as we all can be quite bias to what we own. If someone can chime in without naming names I would appreciate it otherwise maybe I should withdraw the question if I can.

Ah... I see what you are after now.

I would go with a more modern tier 2 rather than an older tier 1.
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieFromNJ View Post
So with everything being equal price, # of helms, heads, staterooms engines (# and brand) etc you would not take one manufacturer over another or just flip a coin?
Irrelevant question, because when it comes the crunch, the boat chooses you, not the other way round. A boating way of saying, you & yours, (if there is a yours), will fall for one more than the others, and it kinda says to you..."buy me, not that other one...you know you like me better", and you're gone...
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:29 PM   #12
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Greetings,
Mr. NJ. Ahhh, I see what you're getting at. The problem is two vessels may be "equal" using the criteria you list in post #9 but two vessels, even sister ships, are never equal. Brand name has little to do with it in a LOT of cases IMO.
Is a Grand Banks better built than a Marine Trader? Most probably. Is a Grand Banks a "wetter" boat under certain sea conditions than a Marine Trader? I've heard it is. So, if I was comparing a GB and a MT as to price, helms, heads, staterooms and engines all being equal, which one would be a "better" boat? The one that had been given the best maintenance! Don't get hung up on brand names. As Mr. PB so aptly states, the boat will pick you.
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. NJ. Ahhh, I see what you're getting at. The problem is two vessels may be "equal" using the criteria you list in post #9 but two vessels, even sister ships, are never equal. Brand name has little to do with it in a LOT of cases IMO.
Is a Grand Banks better built than a Marine Trader? Most probably. Is a Grand Banks a "wetter" boat under certain sea conditions than a Marine Trader? I've heard it is. So, if I was comparing a GB and a MT as to price, helms, heads, staterooms and engines all being equal, which one would be a "better" boat? The one that had been given the best maintenance! Don't get hung up on brand names. As Mr. PB so aptly states, the boat will pick you.


Thanks RT, that was helpful.
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:22 PM   #14
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I see what the OP means... He is being Very polite.

With $300,000 on the table he is asking if he is better off with a older boat like a Grand Banks for example, or a newer boat like a Bayliner or Mainship.

That is a tough one...

Five years ago we had the exact same delemia. Do we buy a older example of a originally more expensive brand boat or a newer less expensive brand boat.

After all no matter your finances pretty much all of us have a finite supply of dollars.

We went with the newer, less expensive brand. A Bayliner 4788 pilothouse. We felt like the advances in technology in the boating world were something we wanted. Big things like no teak decks, and no balsa cored decks. Newer generation engines. Little things like solid surface counters Vs the old standby Formica. Molded fiberglass in the heads, vs built by hand.

Same money could have bought us almost any 1980's boat of the same size on the market. Pick your brand.

Was that a good choice??? I don't know. But it's the choice we made and here we are.

Best of luck!
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:36 PM   #15
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I think there is good advice here, but I'd answer it by saying condition and proof of maintenance are factors #1 and #2, and simplicity/ repairability/ cost of parts is #3. All other things equal, complex, hard to work, or hard to maintain systems would knock a contender off the list. Shit WILL break.

Prestigious brand name can help with resale, certainly, but savvy buyers I think might use the thinking provided in these replies, and be looking more to the level of condition you have maintained the boat to.
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Old 02-12-2017, 10:19 PM   #16
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I was thinking of saying "Lehmans are PT,ie pre tier. Now I understand.
You`ll get arguments about what is T1 and 2. After that, it`s quite possible a great T2 beats a so so T1.
A 1981 Defever48 recently advertised had pics like a 10yo boat. Tier1 for sure, but older. Beauty before age?
Newer T2 boats have their own appeal, in general newer is good, newer less used means more use left for you,but some new may not be very nice. Old, with quality and condition, may best it.
Recognize both T1 & 2 have advantages and disadvantages, balance those, look at boats in both tiers, exclude neither tier, at least initially, until you have a feel for what works for you. And be ready to spot appealing exceptions,from either tier.
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Old 02-12-2017, 10:30 PM   #17
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Rather than look at brands, look at function. What do you want the boat to do and what do you want to do with the boat. In other words, who will be using it, how will it be used, where will it be used, and when. Then look at what you like and what you don't. If you can answer all those then the right boat will start to make itself know.

FWIW, my own opinion is that there are some manufacturers that have a stellar reputation. However, that does not mean that other manufacturers which don't enjoy that same reputation produce inferior boats.
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Old 02-12-2017, 10:50 PM   #18
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Greetings,
Probably the best advice thus far...

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Old 02-12-2017, 11:20 PM   #19
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1 or 2

I believe he is discussing which type Diesel engine.

# 1 - is full mechanical Fuel Injection engine.

# 2 - is only electronic injection.

Since boats in general & electrical & salt water in close proximity can have issues, I would always go with the mechanical Diesel Injection.

You will gain some efficiency with the electronic system.

You will have better reliability with the mechanical system.

All things being equal. ( Which they never are) .

I believe, IMHO, your diesel engine in an off shore trawler style boat, once it is started, should require NO electricity of any kind to keep it running.

That means, No electrical solenoids or relays held open by electric power & no electric fuel pumps, etc..so if your alternator goes out & your batteries get flooded & you have no electrical items working & absolutely no electrical power available from any source, the engine - provided the mechanical fuel pump still is operational & tanks are filled adequately for trip & clean fuel, - should keep running till you get to your destination.

That can only be done with a mechanical system.

So that is how my boat is set up.

Hope that helps.

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Old 02-12-2017, 11:35 PM   #20
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I believe he is discussing which type Diesel engine.
.

I don't think that's what he's after at all. I think he's talking level of boat as indicated by pricing and/or reputation. That's why he said he didn't want to mention brand in his next post. It would be good if he made it clear what he means.
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