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Old 08-10-2015, 02:23 PM   #21
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My company has new-tech trucks.
Far too many sensors that can do fail, shutting down or reducing engine power.
Trouble-shooting is not simple or intuitive.
I wish I could replace them with a basic engine!

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Old 08-10-2015, 02:53 PM   #22
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Point well taken and fully understood. I was with Mack Trucks in 1993 when we switched most of our regular fleet customers to electronic controls. I was really, really skeptical. That's before the put one of our electronic controlled E-7 Diesel CH-Model tractors in a laboratory and bombarded it with about everything you could do to hurt it. Heat, radiation, and vibration on a level that even my most abusive of clients couldn't duplicate. Nothing happened then and nothing much has happened since.
Given the choice, I'd rather have something simpler to work on that I can fully understand, but I have a lot of confidence in today's electronic diesels, and if I were building a new boat and couldn't avoid Tier 3 requirements, I'd make part of the investment in 1) A Data Link and classes how to use it, and 2) service and maintenance of electronic controlled diesels. If you don't want to spend the time and money for classes, buy a Data Link, learn the error codes, and take enough plug-in electronic spares to replace whatever might go wrong. My 2 cents.
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Old 08-10-2015, 03:35 PM   #23
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I'd make part of the investment in 1) A Data Link and classes how to use it,
What is a Data Link?
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Old 08-10-2015, 05:04 PM   #24
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What Larry said.

I looked at the costs of buying a new ECM, injectors, and fuel pump for a JD engine and it was not as expensive as I thought it would be.

What really ticks me off about the JD Tier III engines I have looked at, is that they use more fuel than the Tier II.

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Old 08-10-2015, 05:21 PM   #25
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Boy I wish it was so simple take some classes plug in your laptop and presto problem solved.
I have been trouble shooting electronics on diesels since we started with the first mechanical pumps with electronic overlays. I still see engines that run like crap with no codes and the live data looks fine. I see engines with layers of codes. The first code is not always the problem except sometimes it is. Sometimes you really have to understand how the control system works in order to work out what the codes mean. Other times there is a code which leads straight to the problem. You might end up with a sensor code and spend hours testing wiring and plugs to find the problem after you find out that the sensor is fine. Sometimes the computer will see a short to ground in a sensor circuit. Now all you have to do is find it. There are a lot of different things that can go wrong with the control system and the computer will only point you in a general direction not pin point the problem.
I would be fine with putting an electronic engine on my boat as I think I could figure it out if it was to quit but for someone who is just starting out on electronic engines you are going to have a steep learning curve. Also, you will not have the opportunity to work on multiples of your engine learning as you go along.
With all that said the electronic engines are pretty dependable but the control system does add a layer of complexity.
And a data link is a little 900 dollar plastic box that lets your laptop talk to the engine Ecm . Then you need a cable from the data link to the engine because the engine manufacturers can not seem to agree on what plug to use. I.e. Caterpillar truck engines have a different plug from the same engine in a piece of equipment made by cat. Then you need software for your laptop and most of the software has a yearly fee to keep it working.
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Old 08-10-2015, 06:08 PM   #26
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Hello again. I'm restarting this thread now a year later.

Have decided against a home build (I have a great job with little free time) and am fine-tuning specs and negotiations with a foreign builder for my steel trawler, single diesel. ....
If you don't mine sharing, I'm curious which "foreign builder" you are negotiating with for your future steel trawler?
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Old 08-10-2015, 06:16 PM   #27
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BryanF,
Even at that statement you are simplifying the diagnoses from the answers that the trained mechanics are giving me.

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Old 08-10-2015, 07:31 PM   #28
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Just a thought: Maybe find a rudder off a 1947 boat and then "rebuild" your boat around it. Call it a 1947 boat and pick the engine you want.
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Old 08-10-2015, 08:05 PM   #29
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Having been across many miles and to some less dubious countries. I am a strong believer in the "KISS" principle. If I cannot repair it myself or at least "jury Rig It" I don't want it aboard. I built a R.O.plant a few months ago, again kept it simple, back to basics of control by needle valves. No electronics, no salinity diverters or auto back washers etc. It may mean a little more effort from me to adjust occasionally and backwash etc. But the comfort factor and self reliance is huge.
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Old 08-10-2015, 08:17 PM   #30
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Just a thought: Maybe find a rudder off a 1947 boat and then "rebuild" your boat around it. Call it a 1947 boat and pick the engine you want.

That's essentially what Hendo78 is doing down in Perth with Axe.
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Old 08-10-2015, 08:32 PM   #31
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Can it be documented to another country??


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Old 08-10-2015, 09:06 PM   #32
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Makobuilders, the presence of programmed chips and microprocessors in a marine environment does give one pause. An old saying: " When you say 'electricity on a boat,' you've said a mouthful." For one thing, I wonder what happens to those chips when lightning strikes near the boat?

On the other hand, the diesel engine in my VW is electronically controlled, right down to the fly-by-wire throttle. After fourteen years, 212K miles, and lots of hair-raising Florida thunder / lightning storms, it's given me far less trouble than its mechanically controlled predecessor ever did.

I love the smell of diesel in the morning! But I love my grand babies too, and I've come to regard a cleaner exhaust as an investment in their future. The only reason I can see for waiting to adopt green engine technologies is that the technologies keep getting better. Nevertheless, when my equipment reaches that time its replacement cycle, I'll upgrade my land and sea-based propulsion as best I can afford to.
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Old 08-10-2015, 09:19 PM   #33
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Can it be documented to another country??
I hadn't' really thought about that. Perhaps a flag of convenience country, which would certainly be lower-profile when traveling than having an American flag on the stern. Which countries are most advantageous for a private boat?

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Maybe find a rudder off a 1947 boat and then "rebuild" your boat around it.
If you look at my post that restarted these conversations (#20) I was sorta going in that direction. There are ways around paperwork. It will be years before the boat reaches American waters and will be "used" at that point anyway.

I certainly like the idea of actually protecting our environment even on a small scale, but several things hammer at my mind:
(1) I have to live with this boat for the next several decades, not some politician;
(2) I'm responsible for the safety and lives of my family during this period and I cannot believe the engine electronics will be 100% reliable during that entire time, which leaves me stranded in some remote location.
(3) What is the cost to fly a technician into the Soloman Islands from Japan/Korea/etc. to repair my faulty sensor that has shut down the engine??????

I'm starting to lean towards installing the 10hp Tier 3 engine for main propulsion and then switching it out after the boat is operational and has become "used."

This is a very serious subject since I'm getting closer to signing the Contract, but truthfully I might be being overly cautious. Like Blissboat just said, electronics can be very reliable. My Nissan SUV runs perfectly and it is 130 degrees here in Qatar with 95% humidity.
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Old 08-10-2015, 09:26 PM   #34
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Contact a US based vessel documentation company and ask them what the requirements are for importing a vessel from offshore and documenting it. That may answer many questions.
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Old 08-10-2015, 09:29 PM   #35
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I hadn't' really thought about that. Perhaps a flag of convenience country, which would certainly be lower-profile when traveling than having an American flag on the stern. Which countries are most advantageous for a private boat?
You might want to look into a Cook Island registration.

Registering a Yacht
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Old 08-10-2015, 09:48 PM   #36
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Maybe you've got the perfect candidate for an outboard trawler (temporarily unbalanced) with a sufficiently spacious but vacant fish hold.
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Old 08-10-2015, 09:50 PM   #37
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Maybe you've got the perfect candidate for an outboard trawler (temporarily unbalanced) with a sufficiently spacious but vacant fish hold.
Now there's a creative thinker!!! I like this idea!
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Old 08-10-2015, 10:41 PM   #38
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I am going to approach this from a different angle.

Using the quote:"Based on my past experience I keep coming back to the idea of picking up an old GM 6-71 block and rebuilding it, which I've done before." It appears that Mako is comfortable with his 6-71 for the most part when the concerns of the newere tier 111 engines are a requirement in a new build. If Mako desires to stay with pre tier 111, and not use his 6-71 I would suggest that he check out a Murphy diesel. These are bullet proof slow turning engines equal to the 6-71 and very much fuel pinching in operation. quite, dependable, and reasonably priced when compared to the cost of a new tier 111.

These Murphys are still available along the West Coast of B.C. Canada and there are professionals who are adept at rebuilding them.
That would be my direction being I too lean towards rebuild older engines over the newer complicated electronic units.

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Old 08-10-2015, 10:50 PM   #39
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I've heard of the Murphys for years but know little about them. Would somebody post up the basics on them?
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Old 08-10-2015, 11:44 PM   #40
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Eric, Murphys are a good old engine, however I erred in my engine choice I meant to use Gardner. This is a superior engine to the Murphy or in anticipation of heretic claims, the 6-71. Now we are speaking in tongues I know when tier 111 engines are used in the same breath as these older KISS engines. But I love them.
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