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Old 10-10-2015, 06:40 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
You did miss the obvious point. I was the one that stated my single gets first rate maintenance. And the reason for that is I know I count on that engine exclusively. If I had twins I would not be so anal. That is the point.
That is what I thought you meant. Me personally, I would treat both types the same. Besides, how much more maintenance would an extra engine require?
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Old 10-10-2015, 07:46 PM   #62
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Besides, how much more maintenance would an extra engine require?
Twice?
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Old 10-10-2015, 07:53 PM   #63
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There are more planes in the water than there are boats in the air.
A light plane just went down in Volusia county (FL) this evening. It was a single though. I am pretty sure the pilot isn't wishing he had a twin.
1 killed, 2 injured in Volusia County plane crash | www.wftv.com

Twin engines in an airplane are vastly different than twin engines on a boat.

Two engines on an airplane cause lots of problems if one engine goes out. Since they are usually separated by a significant distance it pulls the aircraft toward the downed engine. It takes a better pilot to land a twin with one engine running, and would almost be better to cut both engines on final approach...
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Old 10-10-2015, 07:58 PM   #64
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Operating a single engine on a dual-engine airplane requires extra training. Leastwise that's the story with my former-pilot-under training son (now an accountant) and Ambry-Riddle flight-school fees.
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:05 PM   #65
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Speaking of phobias, I heard about a guy who was so OC about the singles vs twins discussion on TF that he removed two perfectly good engines and put in one
Tom, that piece of information belongs in the Off Topic "Humor" section. Or a medical journal.
Amazing we are ploughing this well furrowed field again. I thought it was well settled twins are the preferred set up. They certainly were with us the day a fuel line to one of 2 Lehmans fractured.
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:14 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Codger2 View Post
Twice?
My point is that when doing maintenance like oil change, it doesn't take twice the time to do two engines versus one. If you include time to purchase supplies, gather tools, warm up engine/s and clean up, I would estimate that doing a second engine will take an extra 20% of the time it takes to do one.
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:15 PM   #67
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That is what I thought you meant. Me personally, I would treat both types the same. Besides, how much more maintenance would an extra engine require?
Ok, so here is the question, do you change out perfectly functioning parts based on hours in service or wait for them to fail? As an example, would you change out the fresh water pump if there was nothing wrong with it other than high hours. A failure of the fresh water couple cause the engine to overheat and possible blow a head gasket or worse. The blown head gasket isn't very likely, but that's not a risk I'm willing to take with a single engine. While I do carry a spare freshwater pump, I also change it out based on hours of use. What about you?

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Old 10-10-2015, 08:23 PM   #68
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Operating a single engine on a dual-engine airplane requires extra training.

That is incorrect. A multi-engine rating includes training to fly the plane on one engine. In fact, there may be more time spent on that aspect of flight than any other in multi-rating training.
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:34 PM   #69
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I believe the attention the engine in a single or the engines in a twin get has zip, zero, nada to do with the number of engines in the boat but has everything to do with the attitude of the owner.

Each of the engines in our boat get our full attention when it comes to operations, service, maintenance, or repair. We do this because this is how we treat engines. It would make no difference if the boat had one engine or ten, each of them would be treated to the proper service schedules and inspected regularly for any potential faults and components with finite lives like pump impellers, oil, air, and fuel filters, oil and transmission heat exchangers, etc are changed on a schedule, not when they crap out. The schedules for some of these components are based on the normal lives of the components, however.

Based on most of the boat owners we know personally, single and twin, power and sail, I would say that the majority of serious cruising boat owners treat their engine or engines exactly the same as we do.

This isn't to say there aren't boaters out there who use having two engines as an excuse to be lax on service and maintenance. But to assume that this is a widespread reason boaters select twins is a bad assumption I think.
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:54 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
Ok, so here is the question, do you change out perfectly functioning parts based on hours in service or wait for them to fail? As an example, would you change out the fresh water pump if there was nothing wrong with it other than high hours. A failure of the fresh water couple cause the engine to overheat and possible blow a head gasket or worse. The blown head gasket isn't very likely, but that's not a risk I'm willing to take with a single engine. While I do carry a spare freshwater pump, I also change it out based on hours of use. What about you?

Ted
You got me there with the fresh water pump. Although I've pulled both heads and had them serviced including new valves and springs. Nothing was wrong with the engines. It was more about me wanting to do things to the boat to make it more reliable even though I was told that the exercise would be futile. I also replaced the perfectly functioning raw water pumps and rebuilt the old ones for spare. I have replaced many other functioning parts due to age like coolers, hoses etc..., I probably don't come close to you in terms of the level of maintenance but I doubt many do including other single screwers.
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:24 PM   #71
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I said "Operating a single engine on a dual-engine airplane requires extra training."

Marin said "That is incorrect. A multi-engine rating includes training to fly the plane on one engine. In fact, there may be more time spent on that aspect of flight than any other in multi-rating training."

Why do you say I'm incorrect when your argument says essentially the same as I?
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:44 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
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I said "Operating a single engine on a dual-engine airplane requires extra training."

Marin said "That is incorrect. A multi-engine rating includes training to fly the plane on one engine. In fact, there may be more time spent on that aspect of flight than any other in multi-rating training."

Why do you say I'm incorrect when your argument says essentially the same as I?
Because your wording implied that once you got a multi-engine rating you then need extra training to be able to fly it on one engine. This is not correct; the multi-engine training includes learning to fly the plane in all phases of flight on one engine.
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:51 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Marin View Post
I believe the attention the engine in a single or the engines in a twin get has zip, zero, nada to do with the number of engines in the boat but has everything to do with the attitude of the owner.

Based on most of the boat owners we know personally, single and twin, power and sail, I would say that the majority of serious cruising boat owners treat their engine or engines exactly the same as we do.

This isn't to say there aren't boaters out there who use having two engines as an excuse to be lax on service and maintenance. But to assume that this is a widespread reason boaters select twins is a bad assumption I think.
Think your assumptions are flawed based on where you boat. Given the remoteness of where you boat and likely the boat owners you know, everybody there has to play the game at higher level because of the added risk. Move to the average environment of serious cruisers and you will likely find a greater diversity of owner attitudes on PM.

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Old 10-10-2015, 10:03 PM   #74
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Think your assumptions are flawed based on where you boat. Given the remoteness of where you boat and likely the boat owners you know, everybody there has to play the game at higher level because of the added risk. Move to the average environment of serious cruisers and you will likely find a greater diversity of owner attitudes on PM.

Ted
Seattle-Tacoma-Victoria-Vancouverr-Nanaimo is remote? That's a new one on me. Most people here boat within 30-40 miles of one of those cities. So I very much doubt the percieved "risk" is any different to most boaters here than it is to boaters in California, the Gulf, or the east coast.

The folks doing the Passage, Haida Gwaii, SE Alaska, the west coast of Vancouver Island, sure, there's an increased risk. But the folks doing that are but a tiny fraction of the number of active boaters in this area. Most boaters here work Puget Sound, the San Juan Islands, the lower end of Vancouver Island, the Gulf Islands and the Sunshine Coast. Hardly what people here consider "remote."
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Old 10-10-2015, 10:59 PM   #75
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The way I see it, you've got three affordable choices. Single vs. twins is may be more of an image thing. If you like to have more control, or at least have the illusion of more control, you might be a twin guy. Captain Kirk was a twins guy. If you're more of a "fling it" type individual and don't go in for the control image, you might be a single engine type. Captain Ron was a single type. Your other choice would be a no-engine guy. I've known a few of those, but the most famous was probably Captain Kangaroo. Definitely a no-engine type, and what about that side-kick of his, Mr. Green Jeans....a wannabe engine type if I ever saw one.

Best of luck with your choice, but have fun and don't let anyone make it a heavy decision for you. When you find your boat, it will likely have all the engine or engines you need.
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Old 10-10-2015, 11:10 PM   #76
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Marin, Do you have a multi engine rating?
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Old 10-11-2015, 12:13 AM   #77
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Maybe we can get by with one testicle, but I `d rather keep "the twins". I don`t think I need a special rating for them.
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Old 10-11-2015, 12:19 AM   #78
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Old 10-11-2015, 03:03 AM   #79
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Marin, Do you have a multi engine rating?
I never carried it through to a check ride because it was expensive and I didn't need the rating for the commercial flying I did in Hawaii (crop dusting, aerial mapping and fish spotting). But I got a number of instruction hours in our Cessna 310 over there including single-engine work just to have the experience.
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Old 10-11-2015, 03:23 AM   #80
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Two engines on an airplane cause lots of problems if one engine goes out. Since they are usually separated by a significant distance it pulls the aircraft toward the downed engine. It takes a better pilot to land a twin with one engine running, and would almost be better to cut both engines on final approach...
Having bought several twin engine aircraft home on one engine I can safely say this is not the case and I have been very pleaseed to have the other engine to get me home. For a professional competent pilot asymmetric operations are practiced routinely and if they happen are not a great problem. The issue lies with pilots who are not recent and rarely fly multi engine aircraft. That's when you have problems if you loose an engine at a critical time.

As for boats I'd rather have two engines than one but wouldn't pass up a nice single engine boat with a good reliable engine.
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