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Old 08-29-2010, 09:53 PM   #21
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Patti,

Congrats on what looks like a great purchase. (I'm just a little bias) You'll have lots of 'projects' to keep you busy for a long time to come, but these little ships are very seaworthy, and will take more abuse than we skippers will!


As far as your boat not having the water problem your wood boat had I'd think insulation isn't the difference. *I've not found much insulation in the walls of my CHB, but it stays dry as there are no leaks in the windows or ceiling. *I'm wondering if your old woodie had some sort of water intrusion.


While your avatar may look like every other 34' CHB, the fun of course is making those subtle changes that make the boat unique to you. *Getting to know each system of the boat makes you more confident and makes problems easier to find. Remember, it'a all a labor of love (we have to keep telling ourselves that sometime)!


C and K;


Welcome to the forum. *As you're finding out, there is a LOT of valuable info here and lots of firsthand knowledge on about any boat you decide on. *Shopping for boats (walking the docks) is always fun and rewarding. *When the time comes for you guys to purchase you'll know what it is you want in a boat. Fun stuff!




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Old 08-30-2010, 07:47 AM   #22
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Hello Mike,
Thank you for your post!
Yes, this is the start of a lifelong adventure; we can feel it.
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Old 08-30-2010, 04:27 PM   #23
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

C and K,

I'm not sure if my '81 34'CHB is anything like the 34' Monk you are looking at, as I'm not that familiar with Monk boats. Give me more of a description of yours and I'll see how it compares. I love the floorplan of our boat, its actually perfect for us. If I could change anything it would be to have twin diesels instead of the single. We are so new at this, I'm worried the learning curve for us on a single screw is going to be difficult, we arent' spring chickens for sure.
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Old 08-30-2010, 04:37 PM   #24
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Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Quote:
Rocky wrote:

I'm worried the learning curve for us on a single screw is going to be difficult, we arent' spring chickens for sure.
Anything you can accomplish with a twin you can accomplish with a single.* The techniques are different but if you watch the helmsmen of tugs, most fishing boats, etc., you'll see that they put most recreational boaters to shame no matter how many engines the recreational guys have under the floor.

A single isn't a steeper learning curve, it's just a different learning curve.* Most of the boats we see get in maneuvering trouble at the fuel and pumpout docks across the fairway from us are twins.* You can not know how to use twins effectively as easily as you can not know how to use a single effectively.* I demonstrate the twin-engine half of that statement often enough when we're out with Carey, who has a single engine lobsterboat.

I assume your boat doesn't have a bow thruster, but that's something you can easily add (assuming the cost is in line with what you're willing to spend) and it will make your boat even more maneuverable than a twin (unless the twin also has a bow thruster )

*


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 30th of August 2010 04:39:45 PM
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Old 08-30-2010, 04:48 PM   #25
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

before my husband decided he would only consider*twins *I found this article.** this guy has a Krogen

http://www.his.com/~vann/KrgStuff/360turns.htm

He talks about "backing and filling" which is exactly what one of our dock neighbors explained to us is his "secret" to maneuvering his Heritage 38.** He is better at handling his boat than most anyone else in our club.
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Old 08-30-2010, 04:53 PM   #26
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Jennifer:*
I've posted this link before......It's so easy to follow that it's not even funny!Bennett DVD Single Engine Powerboat Handling H389DVD 097278003895

It's all about "backing & filling" and just about everything else you want to know about handling a single engine boat. Try it...you'll like it!
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Old 08-30-2010, 05:20 PM   #27
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Quote:
Pineapple Girl wrote:
He talks about "backing and filling" which is exactly what one of our dock neighbors explained to us is his "secret" to maneuvering his Heritage 38.*
FWIW, you can use backing and filling almost as effectively with a twin as with a single.* I*say almost because a single usually has a*much larger rudder so you can generate a lot of*sideways force with it.*

It's the only technique that will make a 60 or 70 foot narrowboat in the UK go where you want it to go when maneuvering and I got real good at it.* Unfortunately I never think to use this technique in our GB even when there are times when it would be the best thing to do.* The "I have two engines" mentality tends to shut out all the other stuff I've learned with a single.* So I always think in terms of splitting the thrust instead of alternating thrust and rudder(s).
*
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:23 PM   #28
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Backing straight or making a right angle turn to back into a slip or Med moor are the only maneuvers that a single engine boat doesn't really want to do. Practice a few times in calm conditions, and you will get the hang of it, then try in more challenging conditions and you will likely find some of your technique works just as well, some not at all, so you will learn what does work.

Speaking generally, a rudder is designed to operate mostly (power boat, not sailboat) on prop wash. That design feature should be kept firmly in mind, so you are not tempted to try to use the rudder when there is no prop wash acting on it. ie: don't try steering with the rudder while your prop is turning in reverse. In reverse, a much stronger effect on your steering is the walking of the prop. A right handed prop will walk to starboard in forward and to port in reverse. In forward the walk is cancelled out by the rudder reacting to the prop wash. In reverse the walking is going to move the stern of your boat in the prop wash direction.

With that understanding, you can put the stern of your boat exactly where you want to, provided you don't ever try to fight the prop walk. So, if you need to moor on a slip that is on your port side as you approach, and you have a right handed prop, with a walk to port in reverse, you can back in by putting your helm hard to starboard and using fwd and reverse to move your stern around and get some way on in the reverse direction. With the rudder remaining hard over, if your stern needs to move further to port, just give a burst of forward and it will move over, returning to reverse for the movement back into the slip. If you are too far to port, you will need to put your helm to port and give that burst of forward, then continue in reverse.

If your slip is to starboard, and you have the same port moving stern, go in bow first and your boat will naturally want to turn into the slip, keep your helm over to starboard and bursts of reverse will kick the stern away from the dock till the boat is facing straight in, then you can just steer in.

Don't try to back into that starboard side slip, and only go bow first into the port facing slip if you can complete your turn before entering the slip.

The same technique will work on twins, you just have twice the props and rudders, so can do both fwd and reverse at once.

On either single or twins, it is most important to put the bow where you want it first, while you have complete control of the stern, where the action is. Don't ever give up control of the stern by handing some dockie a line, if the bow isn't already where you want it. No lines should be handed to helping hands until the boat is fully where you want it to be, unless you don't want any credit for docking the boat and want the dockies to take all the credit for bringing you in.

Above all, practice in a variety of conditions.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:47 PM   #29
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Marin, whats the cost of a bow thruster + installation?

SeaHorse II: DVD is out of stock (

I can see from these posts it really comes down to practice, practice, practice. We do have some good open area to do this in, although wish there were some empty end slots on the dock we could practice docking.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:53 PM   #30
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Hey Mike (Coyote),
Our boats are alot alike...LOL, yours is a year newer, but looks just like ours. Previous owner painted the house this awful beige; we ae going to go back with white, so much cleaner looking. My hubby is retired from law enforcement, not in psych area though, hence the new name of our boat Wuzz A Fuzz. He also finds our new boat very theraputic as well. You can find him most evenings on the flybridge with a good cigar...LOL
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:07 PM   #31
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Quote:
Rocky wrote:

Marin, whats the cost of a bow thruster + installation?

Like everything else, it depends on what you want.**I'm*guessing a*basic, small electric bowthruster is probably in the neighborhood of $4,000 installed but I could be way off on that not knowing how much labor is actually involved.* You can get an accurate estimate from the yards in your area that do this kind of work.

Or you can spend major bucks and get a hydraulic thruster, but that will probably get into five figures what with the thruster, hull installation, and hydraulic system needed to run it.

*
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:23 PM   #32
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Thanks Marin, I'll check with our yard on cost. Hydraulic thruster is out of the question.
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:49 PM   #33
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Koliver has a bunch of great points, I would add that if you go out and practice on a calm day, in a quiet part of your marina try backing the boat while on the fly bridge standing with your back to the bow, with the wheel behind your back.... you get a great view and can quickly see how your boat reacts to each input. I typically always back this way as I use the square stern of my boat as my reference.
I recently backed my 60,000 lb single screw trawler about a 1/3 of a mile around a marina to get into a slip on the other side of a gang plank... why you ask?? 1- because it backs well enough and steers fine in reverse* ( just move the rudder SLOWLY if at any speed)... 2= because I can... and its fun to show off a little as long as it doesn't bite you in the butt!. The next day I watched a gentleman with a Krogen 42 with a bow thruster not move from the same spot until he had enough help to line him back. In all fairness I think he was new to the boat and didn't think his thruster was "big" enough.* I know a lot of folks here think that twins are the only way to go.... I for one feel the same about single engine boats.* And yes I do have a bow thruster, I use it about 50% of the time docking, backing, leaving a side tie ect.
HOLLYWOOD
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:59 PM   #34
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Quote:
Rocky wrote:SeaHorse II: DVD is out of stock (
The site says it can be back ordered.

*
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:35 AM   #35
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Wesmar makes a line of continuous duty electric thrusters that will run all day until you exhaust the batteries. For a standard electric thruster, get a recommendation on what size your boat needs and then get the next biggest size. You can't have too big of a thruster, but a too small one will just give you a false sense of security. It'll trip out just when you need it the most.
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:21 AM   #36
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Or Rocky, you could save the money and just do like KOliver has described - added to by that excellent link. I was convinced I would need to fit a bow thruster the first couple of times we took our boat out 8 yrs ago, but after a bit of trial and not to much error I worked out for myself exactly the technique described as backing and filling, and it does indeed work. I have a starboard side berth, and my prop-walk is to starboard in reverse, so it works for us to dock bow in, with pilot door to the berth as well. However, I would now be quite confident to back in if necessary, and to be honest, I have never missed that thruster. If you have one you will use it, but gain less skill handling the boat - if you don't have one, you manage without, it's that simple. Just remember which way the bow moves with the wind - probably like mine, your vessel will swing bow away from the wind, so use that to effect, then do that back & fill thing, and Bob's your uncle, you're in and docked. Also remember, whichever way the stern moves with reverse prop-walk set your rudder hard over to the same side, so the burst, goose, whatever you want to call it, in forward gear will move the stern the other way, and you have control to swing the stern either way. Even hard over, at slow idle revs the boat will tend to go straight back with slow swing towards the prop-walk side. A burst in reverse accentuates this, a burst in forward moves it the other way. Simple really.
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:23 AM   #37
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

SeaHorse II: DVD is out of stock ( The site says it can be back ordered.


Amazon has it. Just Google 'Bennett DVD Single Engine Powerboat Handling'
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:40 AM   #38
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Quote:
Rocky wrote:

Marin, whats the cost of a bow thruster + installation?

SeaHorse II: DVD is out of stock (

I can see from these posts it really comes down to practice, practice, practice. We do have some good open area to do this in, although wish there were some empty end slots on the dock we could practice docking.
The thruster + the installation cost around $6,000 for my boat. It was done by the PO a few years ago. You could save a few thousand bucks if you do the installation yourself but that's tricky business.

*
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:05 AM   #39
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

Quote:
Peter B wrote:

If you have one [bopw trhuster] you will use it, but gain less skill handling the boat - if you don't have one, you manage without, it's that simple.
This is a hot topic on all boating forums.* Should you get a bow thruster or tough it out and learn to operate without one.* As I said earlier, you can accomplish anything with a single that you can accomplish with a twin.* The techniques can be different but the end result will be the same.* But like everything, maneuvering a twin or a single takes practice.* The more you operate the boat under varying conditions the more you will learn, a process that never stops by the way since there will always be the situation you haven't encountered yet.

If you operated your single-engine boat a lot under many conditions--- like the fishing skippers and tug skippers--- you will get real good at putting a single-engine boat anywhere you want it.** (And fishing boats and tugs are made to be whacked up against docks and piers--- they aren't real worried about the brightwork and wax job on these things.)

But most of us recreational boaters don't really run our boats all that much.* Certainly not compared to a commercial skipper.* Having a bow thruster can be a real boon to a skipper who simply doesn't have the boat handling time and a vast number of docking and wind and current situations under his belt, which tends to be most of us.

We chartered a single-engine GB36 before buying our own boat.* It had a bow thruster and that thruster was the only thing in a few instances that prevented us from damaging the boat.* Has I been a much more experienced boat handler at the time, I might not have needed the thruster.* But given my abilities and the situations we were in, the thruster was an obvious "fix" for the problem, it was easy to use and understand, and it required no practice to "get it right."

The most common argument against thrusters is that when it quits you won't know how to maneuver the boat without it.* But you can make the same statement about a twin engine boat.* If you have to shut down an engine, you have a single engine boat with asymetrical thrust.* It can be a real bear to dock or close-maneuver a twin with only one engine running.* I've had to do it a couple of times, and it was not easy.* Harder than maneuvering a single-engine boat, I can tell you that.* But what twin owner practices close-in maneuvering on one engine?* There might be a few but I daresay most of us never do this.* We depend on those two engines running, which I don't see being any different than the single-engine owner depending on his bow thruster running.

I've noticed that most people who point out the downside of relying on a bow thruster don't have one.* So far as I can recall, I have never heard a boater who has one say they wish they didn't.* A sensible approach in my opinion is what our boating friend Carey does with his single-engine lobsterboat.* It has a thruster, but he rarely uses it.* He is one of the best boat handlers I know, and he has learned how to handle his boat without the thruster.* But..... on those occasions where a shot of thruster will make his life a whole lot easier, or prevent whacking into something, he uses it.

It's sort of like a mobile phone.* You can live your life successfully without one but now that they've been invented it can make a lot of situations a whole lot easier to deal with, so why not take advantage of the technology?



*
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:55 PM   #40
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RE: Okay Everyone Check Her Out

I'm thinking at this stage of the game, practice, practice, practice will be what hubby will opt for. Thats not to say that down the line a thruster wouldn't be a consideration. Seems to make more sense to me that practicing and getting to know ones boat inside and out is the most prudent course of action and will teach a skill worth knowing. Kinda like learning to drive a 4-speed transmission, not much use for that these days, but if the occasion ever arose and the only old vehicle available to get ya somewhere was a 4 speed manual transmission, that knowledge would be worth alot. I forced my daughter to learn to drive a stick shift when she was 13 (old farm truck), and boy was she mad, didn't want any part of it, wasn't a cool thing I guess; however now that she's an adult and a deputy sheriff she has come across numerous times where that knowledge came in pretty darn handy. Thanks to all for your generous responses.

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