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Old 11-18-2015, 03:09 PM   #21
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Other than Marin's English tractor motor experts who seem to think they are delicate little flowers,
Ignorance is bliss isn't it Mr. Bill.

My UK acquaintances do not think the Dorset is a "delicate little flower" (another amateur-hour absurdity) but they know damn well what its weak points are and how to avoid provoking them.

Most of these guys have forgotten more about diesel engines--- particularly that generation of engines--- than the people who profess expertise on them here will ever know. Which is why I give pretty much zero credibility on stuff that actually matters to internet forums full of self-proclaimed experts and strongly advise others to seek out information from people whose credibility they can judge for themselves, preferably in person.

Forums like this are good fun, but when anyone here says on a clear day the sky is blue, look up first before you buy into their "advice."
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Old 11-18-2015, 03:14 PM   #22
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Go to sleep and change the oil next year.

If you are running an oil that meets the engine specifications and changing per the manual I would not worry about leaving the old oil in the crankcase over winter.

Later,
Dan
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Old 11-18-2015, 03:30 PM   #23
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...
For the fun of it you could pull a sample of the oil when you change it and send it off to say Blackstone labs and see what condition it was in. You might be in for a pleasant surprise. Because remember, that oil you are pulling out at 200 hours would be the same oil you'd use in an engine that has say a 250 hour change recommendation.

http://m.blackstone-labs.com
I put this in my post to not worry about but then decided I was talking to much.

So here is what I took out:

I just went 15,000 miles on the oil in my truck. Recommended change is 5,000 miles. Used Oil Analysis(UOA) said I could have gone a bit more time on the oil but the TBN was 5 so it was a good time to change. The TBN should not go lower than 5. On this oil, I think it started at 12-14. Other oil parameters were just fine. I don't like to run that long but that is what had to happen.

I am getting some lead in the oil which is curious but the engine has 205,000 miles and is 14 years old. The usual wear indicators are low.

Psst. Psst. Shhhh. Don't tell anyone....

Once upon a time....

I went THREE years before changing the oil in my tractor engine, a Yanmar, BTW. Oil had very low hours, unfortunately, looked new and the oil analysis showed the oil was all but new. I threw away perfectly good oil.

Having said this I use very good oils. For a long time I was using JD 0wX40 oil but I have now moved to Shell 0Wx40 since it is easier for me to get. In the past I have used Shell 5Wx 40 oil with similar results. Using an oil the meets the specifications of the engine is all one really needs. I use a bit better oil since I am running longer hours, time on the engine, and doing cold weather starts.

Last trip to buy oil, I noticed there are a LOT of oils that would could think are diesel rated but are NOT. One really has to read the label. This used to be simpler.

I have been using Blackstone for years since I want to know what is going on in my engines and to the oil. The UOA gives me information, saves me time and maybe saves some chump change. The cost of UOA really saves me time which is worth the cost. Knowing the state of the oil is just a bonus.

Later,
Dan
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Old 11-18-2015, 03:44 PM   #24
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Richard--- I just got off the phone on another matter with my friend who for decades was the head of engineering at Alaska Diesel Electric aka Northern Lights/Lugger. This is a fellow who actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to diesels used in marine service. So I asked him about the oil-change before layup thing.

He said that if a diesel is going to be laid up for a month or three, unless the oil is extremely dirty there is nothing to be gained by changing it in terms of the acidity issue.

If the engine is going to be laid up for six months or more and the oil is dirty, it would be a good idea to change the oil and run the engine to distribute it throughout the engine before shutting it down for the layup period.

Running an engine periodically during a period when the boat itself is not going to be taken out is a good thing to do but ONLY if the engine is brought up to operating temperature and then kept there for a period of time. Just starting it, running it for a few minutes, and then shutting it down is worse than not running it at all in terms of the effect on the oil.

I asked him if he had ever seen engine components that had been damaged by effects of oil acidity acting on them and he said he's heard of it happening from a few customers over the years but he has never actually seen it himself.

So you can draw your own conclusions from that. While the oil change interval for an FL120 as spelled out in the Lehman operating manual is 200 hours (it's different in the original Ford Dorset manual), I suspect that the oil is not all that dirty after that period, particularly in boat service.
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:17 PM   #25
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Take a garden hose, pop the top off the raw water strainer, run your fresh water into the raw water strainer and just run the engine for a few minutes to circulate the oil. I don't think I would run it long enough to get the engine up to temperature, just long enough to circulate the oil through a few cycles and pick up some of the"solids". Then pump it out as normal and change the filter. I always run it for a few after the oil change to get fresh oil into my system as well.

That's how I winterize too, pop the top off the strainer and just pour my anti-freeze in the top of the strainer with the through hull valve shut off. Let the raw water exhaust normally and you're good to go.

That way you won't be feeling guilty all winter...
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:17 PM   #26
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What brand of oil is best
The one you use.
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:26 PM   #27
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I just took Bob Smith's Lehman 2 day seminar last month. Great class, but Bob says it was the last one he is able to teach. He recommends using straight 30 or 40 weight oil depending on the climate you are boating in. As to changing the oil in the fall, Bob recommended not changing it in the fall, but rather changing the oil in the spring. He said he thought the acid issue was not really an issue. I had always done the fall oil change, but now I am not as worried about it.
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:35 PM   #28
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Ignorance is bliss isn't it Mr. Bill.
I wouldn't know. So I'll just take your word on it.

As to my "delicate little flower" comment, that was tongue in cheek and meant as bait.

Know any good taxidermist in your area?
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:41 PM   #29
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Richard--- BTW, in the opinion of my Northern Lights/Lugger friend, with regards to your current concern it's not one to worry about.


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I wouldn't know.
Oh, look! There goes the point.
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:42 PM   #30
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Comodave,
Remember though this is the same guy that recomends MMO.

I sure do agree w him on the straight wt oil. Multi-vis provides no advantage in a boat.
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:53 PM   #31
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Comodave,
Remember though this is the same guy that recomends MMO.

I sure do agree w him on the straight wt oil. Multi-vis provides no advantage in a boat.
Depends on the engine. Most large high HP engines seem to recommend 15-40w.
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:58 PM   #32
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Bill,
15-40w is not too bad but the 0-40w stuff has lots of viscosity improvers and they do nothing to lubricate your engine. But boat engines do not need multi vis. None at all is needed so why use it?

As for engines that "recoment it" I think they probably "list" it along w straight wt oil but don't specifically recomend the multi-vis oil. And if you went into their shop they probably would say use straight wt oil or use multi-vis if you must. I'm not sure though .. the turbo may need the multi-vis.

I agree w the Lehman guy (Smith) on this one. But w a turbo 15-40w may .. just may have some benefit. I don't think the engine needs it but the turbo may. I know very little about turbos.
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Old 11-18-2015, 05:01 PM   #33
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I could not leave my boat(s) in winter storage with dirty oil. It's just wrong. But I also use Mobil 1 synthetic so I am a little wacky
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Old 11-18-2015, 05:32 PM   #34
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Thanks all.

THis was my first idea. But then thought the risks outweighed the gains.

Since most here are telling me to leave it until March, that seems like a plan.

In the past, with 30wt oil, as Marin mentioned, it hardly comes out and I think it will burn up the oil pump before I got 14 qts out.

now there is 15w 40. I don't think it will flow much easier cold, 45F,.

Yes, the whole acid buildup is exactly what I do fear. As well as the added moisture that can now deposit itself on metal cold metal parts for the winter.

I will sleep better knowing it's not a slam dunk answer in any case.

Pulling the impeller does seem easy and there should be no other parts affected by no water flow.
15W-40 oil won't flow easier? Of course it will. The very reason for multi-grade oil is for cold-starting enhancement.
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Old 11-18-2015, 06:17 PM   #35
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Bill,
15-40w is not too bad but the 0-40w stuff has lots of viscosity improvers and they do nothing to lubricate your engine. But boat engines do not need multi vis. None at all is needed so why use it?

As for engines that "recoment it" I think they probably "list" it along w straight wt oil but don't specifically recomend the multi-vis oil. And if you went into their shop they probably would say use straight wt oil or use multi-vis if you must. I'm not sure though .. the turbo may need the multi-vis.

I agree w the Lehman guy (Smith) on this one. But w a turbo 15-40w may .. just may have some benefit. I don't think the engine needs it but the turbo may. I know very little about turbos.

I think you'll find CAT and other high HP turbo engine manufacturers do recommend multi weight oils over single weight oils in many cases these days.

https://caterpillar.scene7.com/is/co...llar/C10513033

From MTU: "In engines in Series 4000 T94,T94L, only engine oils of oil category 3 or 3.1 of SAE grades 5W-40 or 10W-40 must be used!
In engines in Series 4000 R64, R74 and R84, only engine oils of oil category 3.1 of SAE grades 5W-40 or 10W-40 must be used!
The maximum oil service life is 1000 operating hours with observance of the analyti‐ cal limit values for used oils!"

Note they allow 1000 hour oil service life with proper oil analysis.
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Old 11-18-2015, 07:21 PM   #36
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catalinajack,
But your boat never experiences cold starts as we keep them 40 degrees or more in the boat.
And 30wt wlii flow fine down to at least 15F
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Old 11-18-2015, 07:37 PM   #37
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So if you replace oil sitting in a pan, with other oil sitting in a pan, what good does it do for your engine?

In less you run the engine to get the oil into all the journals and passages the oil sitting in your oil pan right now will be the same oil in almost every part of your engine .

So, it will do no good at all to change your oil except to make you feel better and sleep better.
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Old 11-18-2015, 07:37 PM   #38
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I have never heard any credible recommendation to change the oil prior to a winter (or any) layup and then change it again in the spring. That to me makes no sense. The clean oil is just sitting there being clean all winter so why change it out prior to using the engine in the spring?
I always change the oil in the fall, but not again in the spring. Don't understand why one should. Our last boat had an undetermined amount of hours on it's engines when we bought it, but the engines were about 15 years old then. Put about 2,220 hours on it while we owned it. Still ran sweet when we sold her.
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Old 11-18-2015, 07:40 PM   #39
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Take a garden hose, pop the top off the raw water strainer, run your fresh water into the raw water strainer and just run the engine for a few minutes to circulate the oil. I don't think I would run it long enough to get the engine up to temperature, just long enough to circulate the oil through a few cycles and pick up some of the"solids". Then pump it out as normal and change the filter. I always run it for a few after the oil change to get fresh oil into my system as well.

That's how I winterize too, pop the top off the strainer and just pour my anti-freeze in the top of the strainer with the through hull valve shut off. Let the raw water exhaust normally and you're good to go.

That way you won't be feeling guilty all winter...
What he said.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:06 PM   #40
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I just took Bob Smith's Lehman 2 day seminar last month. ... As to changing the oil in the fall, Bob recommended not changing it in the fall, but rather changing the oil in the spring. He said he thought the acid issue was not really an issue.
Comodave...
Did he provide any rationale for the spring change vs fall??
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