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Old 05-30-2014, 01:25 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post
Ron, the tube you put down inside the dipstick hole goes all the way to the bottom. You really do get 99+% out.

Is this pretty much true of all dip sticks?
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Old 05-30-2014, 06:17 AM   #22
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Is this pretty much true of all dip sticks?

No , most engines are marinizations of some purchased engine that was built for industrial use , cars or trucks or for lawn/farm equipment .

There usually drain down from the oil pan , as is done with you car at Quick Lube.

SOME larger engines may contain a dip stick tube fitted as part of an on board oil change setup , but it would be factory installed , and the oil changing gear would be sold as an option.

For most folks the suck tube slipped down the dipstick tube will be fine.

Getting ALL the oil out is a fine fantasy , but remember larger engines will have a quart to a gallon that is all thru the engine that takes many hours to drain..

Oil is usually checked with the engine shut down for a period of time after operating warm.

On older DD the drain time is 2 min , and the oil level observed THEN is used to add oil if needed.
Modern DD check oil at idle , warm.

The cold oil level before start just checks there is some oil in the engine
.Frequently before cold start it will be very high on the stick as overnight the oil came back to the pan.
ALL the oil out only happens on a disassembly for rebuild , its the frequency of the oil change that matters.

Never heard of an engine rebuildrer claim , You wore it out with all that fresh oil!
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Old 05-30-2014, 07:44 AM   #23
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Ron, the tube you put down inside the dipstick hole goes all the way to the bottom. You really do get 99+% out.
I'm on a cruise now and probably have another oil change to make before I get home but that's what I'm going to do, adapt the tube to fit my electric changer. The engine is supposed to take 2.9 gallons and if I put even 2.5 gallons in I over fill it and have to pump some new oil out.
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Old 05-30-2014, 07:50 AM   #24
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Is this pretty much true of all dip sticks?
A tube you insert into the dipstick should reach the bottom of the oil pan and drain most of the oil. If the engine is not level and the dipstick tube is not at the rear of the engine, there will be a small amount left.

Attaching a hose to the dipstick tube (like I've been doing and the PO apparently did) will leave whatever oil remains below the level of the dipstick tube. In my case (Volvo TAMD41 P), I estimate that to be at least three quarts.
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Old 05-30-2014, 05:04 PM   #25
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The weekly missive from NorthernTool included this little pump. Lots of alternatives, but at $30.00 it might be worth considering. I use an impeller pump from Harbor Freight which costs slightly more and requires that you supply your own hose and wiring. No affliation to either etc etc.
My homemade unit. Total of $25 invested. Northern Tool now has this pump for $19.99.
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Old 05-30-2014, 10:53 PM   #26
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You can't change anywhere near 100% of your oil anyway so what's the difference whether you get 100% out or 95%? Pull your valve cover off and see all the little puddles of oil. And there's many more. All you can do is change most of the oil. But as I've said before you can suck it out and open the drain plug and see how much you missed. But it's really fly sh**t. What's important is that you change the 95%.

That looks really good windmill.
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Old 05-31-2014, 03:25 AM   #27
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You can't change anywhere near 100% of your oil anyway so what's the difference whether you get 100% out or 95%? ...
Of course. 95% fresh oil is better than 100% filthy oil.Hint, by trying various positions of the tube the more I get out, if the tube is inserted too far it can bend back up, out of the oil.
Eric, I don`t get your mechanic sucking the oil out of your VW Beetle instead of draining via the sump plug. We drain boat engines via the dipstick hole because we can`t do it conventionally.
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Old 05-31-2014, 06:37 AM   #28
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............. But as I've said before you can suck it out and open the drain plug and see how much you missed. .
I don't think many boat engines have drain plugs and even if they did they would be impossible to get to.

I had a bow rider long ago that did have a drain plug but it was connected to a hose. You pulled the hose out through the garboard drain to drain the oil.
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Old 05-31-2014, 06:40 AM   #29
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.............., by trying various positions of the tube the more I get out, if the tube is inserted too far it can bend back up, out of the oil .............
The tube I'm thinking of that came with my manual extractor is stiff so it won't bend or curl. The only issue I can think of is, since it's small enough to fit inside the dipstick tube, it might be difficult to suck oil through it.
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Old 05-31-2014, 06:43 AM   #30
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The only issue I can think of is, since it's small enough to fit inside the dipstick tube, it might be difficult to suck oil through it.

HOT oil flows like water , and the oil is best taken out hot after a long run so the detergents in the oil have picked up all the fine stuff that gets passed the filter.
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Old 05-31-2014, 07:28 AM   #31
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The only issue I can think of is, since it's small enough to fit inside the dipstick tube, it might be difficult to suck oil through it.

HOT oil flows like water , and the oil is best taken out hot after a long run so the detergents in the oil have picked up all the fine stuff that gets passed the filter.
Yes, I know that. My engine runs pretty cool unless I run WOT so I try to plan my oil changes at the end of a day's running. In the slip idling, I can't get the engine over 150 degrees or so.
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Old 05-31-2014, 10:09 AM   #32
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Our two FLs, as well as the Westerbeke genset, have hoses attached to the bottom of the pan for draining the oil. From the factory? I don't know, but sure makes it easy.

On our last boat I made up a drain plug with a hose fitting and used that to suck the oil out. Of course you need access to the drain plug to do that.

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Old 05-31-2014, 10:14 AM   #33
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Bruce,
I don't think the the VW mechanic uses the extractor on a regular basis but I don't know and my wording was probably misleading. It was I just reread. Sorry
Ron,
Willy's Mitsu has a hose attached to the drain plug that has it's own extractor pump attached so I just put a container under the pump outlet curved tube on top and start pulling the pump rod up and down. And as FF says the oil is very hot. I know most boat engines have drain plugs that are very difficult to get to but the VW guy proved that all the oil was extracted in the VW car. I suppose that suggesting TF members do that was a bit stupid. But getting 95% of the oil out is all we do anyway because of oil left in the engine. The idea of changing oil in the first place is that we replenish enough of the oil that's got some time on it w fresh oil so the oil is able to do it's job. So if the oil can do it's job 100% satisfactorily w 95% (or so) of the oil exchanged at recommended intervals the oil change is 100% effective. The idea being to have "mostly" clean oil "100% of the time. The idea of every spec of oil needing to come out during an oil change is ... over fussy .. anal .. over the top ..
FF yes it's amazing how fast the hot oil flows through the small tube. I recall when I first encountered the concept of extracting the lube oil out through a tube small enough to insert into a dip stick hole I must have said something like "you gotta be kidding". But it works very well.
Ron wrote; "In the slip idling, I can't get the engine over 150 degrees or so." Engines are different in this respect. After a few minutes of idling my Mitsu gets up to 180 and only gets a few degrees warmer at 2500rpm cruising. The degree of control afforded by the thermostat varies. And the location and plumbing in the vicinity of the thermostat varies too. My engine runs at 50% load most of the time so I'm glad the thermostat seems to "pick up the ball" so to speak to help keep the engine warm enough. I suspect most trawlers would be better off w/o an oil cooler while running at 30% or so. But if you ever worked the engine hard you'd want the oil cooler back. So I'm not implying one should do that. I probably would do that w an overpowered boat .. and most are.
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Old 05-31-2014, 11:08 AM   #34
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So if the oil can do it's job 100% satisfactorily w 95% (or so) of the oil exchanged at recommended intervals the oil change is 100% effective.

The oil always does its primary job , lubrication, and secondary , heat transfer.

Oil is changed so the additive package 15% to 35+% of the oil is renewed.

Changing also allows the detergents in the oil to carry off the crud , and the dead acid modifiers to be replaced.

Oil never wears out , but the good stuff does.

That is why oil that uses secondary cleaning , centrifuge , or simply massive filters ialso needs replacing.

Sadly ideling at the dock till the oil is simply warm before changing will not capture the fines that pass thru filters , it takes hours of higher temps and lots of oil flow to loosen and carry off the gunk.

It may no longer be like a grinding compound from the trapped dirt , but the rest of the chemicals require replacement.
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Old 05-31-2014, 03:21 PM   #35
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FF good post.

You wrote;
"Oil never wears out"

I don't know one way or an other but I have heard many times that what makes oil slipery is that it is made up of very long molecules. And as the oil is thrashed probably most harshly in gears the molecules are choped up shorter and over time the oil looses it's slippery quality .. lubricity I guess. But the ability to carry heavy loads like in main and rod bearings may or may not be related to lubricity and how the length of the oil molecules effects oil performance .. I don't know. But it's hard for me to "visualize" oil being thrashed badly for a long time and not suffer any change in physical properties and such changes should change and effect how an oil would perform as lubricating Oil.

So it would seem to me oil should have a tendency to wear out.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:48 AM   #36
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My MDKD Onan 6.5 has a rubber oil drain tube with valve. But the Onan sits in a frame with raised edges about 3/4" so the hose is slightly uphill if trying to drain oil. But it might be more effective to put the dipstick extractor tube down the rubber tube than the dipstick hole. I`ll try it next time. Sump gunk beware.
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Old 06-01-2014, 07:43 AM   #37
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My MDKD Onan 6.5 has a rubber oil drain tube with valve. But the Onan sits in a frame with raised edges about 3/4" so the hose is slightly uphill if trying to drain oil. But it might be more effective to put the dipstick extractor tube down the rubber tube than the dipstick hole. I`ll try it next time. Sump gunk beware.
My Westerbeke has the same...but someone (PO or installer) drilled a hole in the frame, and there is a second piece of tubing with a fitting that screws onto the drain line fitting where the cap usually is.

So all I have to do is put the second tube (now long enough to reach the bottom of the bilge so I don't have to hold a container) through the hole, screw it on and pull it down so everything drains.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:23 AM   #38
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I also own the Jabsco engine oil pump and had difficulties at first, but it works very well now. As others noted, it is best to change the oil after the engine reaches operating temperature (or close to it). Don't let the engine idle but rather change the oil after a day trip for example--it will flow far better. Even with warm/hot oil, the pump takes time to drain my 4.5 quart pan. Also, the hose that came with the pump was slightly too large for my dip stick tube; it would get stuck and kink. I had to replace the entire hose to create a better fit.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:21 PM   #39
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I have a manual pump but flexible plastic tube which curls up in oil pan. My best result was attaching a piece of copper tubing to plastic tub, yes with electrical tape, then rigid tub hit the bottom of oil pan. Works well, just a little crude. 135 Lehman in Albin 36

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