Go Back   Trawler Forum > Trawler Forum > General Discussion
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-04-2010, 10:33 PM   #21
Guru
 
Egregious's Avatar
 
City: Sunset Beach, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Polly P.
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
RE: An object of my lust and a couple of other early season harbor neighbors

Benn and Nomadwilly,

any idea why the stern is shaped like that?* Typically I'd say that is to deal with a following sea in ****ty weather.* Am I correct?

Woody
__________________
Advertisement

Egregious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2010, 08:32 AM   #22
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,174
RE: An object of my lust and a couple of other early season harbor neighbors

Below the waterline, the pointy stern gives a turbulence-free wake, unlike mmost square stern designs, so at displacement speeds, a much more efficient hull.
Above the wl, just aesthetics. The tumblehome is a Garden treat.
I don't know any Garden designs that weren't pretty.
__________________

koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2010, 09:43 AM   #23
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,724
RE: An object of my lust and a couple of other early season harbor neighbors

Woody,A proper full displacement hull may or may not be a double ender. A Krogen is a good example of an excellent 100% FD hull that usually has almost all the advantages of the double ender in following seas. Whitehall pulling boats (row boats) have a flat transom but it is small and well above the water. All these FD boats pay the price of not being able to go any or much faster than 1.34 X the square root of the water line length and if not overdriven cruise at 10 - 20% less than that. My hull speed (1.34 ect) of my Willard is 7 knots and I cruise at 6.15. However slow my Willard is it's very seaworthy and requires only 16hp to cruise. Thats 2hp per ton of displacement. I have 4.6hp per ton maximum power so I'm probable a bit over powered w 37hp. I probably wouldn't miss the extra power if I had a 3 cyl 27hp Yanmar.
Keith,
My stern is round and not pointed. The run of the bottom is a bit abrupt in the center of the stern and the hull aft is (generally speaking) very full to carry the extra ballast. So there is a bit of turbulence in the center of the wake and a bit of the wake even creeps fwd like a square stern boat but she seems to be blessed w about 90% of the benifits of pointy stern boat.*But the large rudder and very soft quarter sections make her very well mannered in following seas.**All boats are compromise, none are the same and none are totally pure.
Yes * *.. the masters. Garden, Atkin, Gardner, Schock * *.. there are quite a few * *.. all their boats are very very good boats and beautiful too.


Eric Henning
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2010, 12:11 AM   #24
Guru
 
Egregious's Avatar
 
City: Sunset Beach, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Polly P.
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
RE: An object of my lust and a couple of other early season harbor neighbors

Thanks, this is the kind of great information I came her for.* Thanks for the replies.
Egregious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2010, 08:49 PM   #25
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
An object of my lust and a couple of other early season harbor neighbors

As Eric says, an advantage of a pointed, or at least rounded stern above the waterline is that the boat won't get pushed around as much in a following sea.* A boat like a Grand Banks, CHB, etc.*can be a real pain in the a*s in a following sea because at their slow cruising*speeds the waves are often traveling faster than the boat and can slop up against that big, wide, flat transom and shove the boat in every direction except the one you want to go in.* In nasty conditions it can actually become very dangerous because*this trait can cause the boat to yaw sideways as it's pushed forward by the wave.* If the wave is big enough, if the*helmsman isn't quick enough, or if the rudder(s) don't have sufficient authority--- or all three--- *the boat can end up in the perfect position to be rolled over.* This has happened at least once that I know of right here in Bellingham Bay on a stormy day.* There were no survivors....

The advantage of the wide, flat butt of a boat like the GB is you get more interior space--- as FF says, a floating condo---*because the beam can stay wide all the way to the stern. But the handling in a following sea really suffers.

So the rounded stern of Eric's boat, regardless of what it does below the waterline, will be a real advantage should he get into sloppy or rough water with the waves coming down on him from astern.


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 10th of June 2010 09:00:11 PM
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2010, 09:55 PM   #26
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,724
An object of my lust and a couple of other early season harbor neighbors

Well * ..OK * *..but it's not availible. It's mine. Seriously I thought of some other elements of boat design that effect following sea performance. The sea works itself into a little hill of sorts that we can slide down but the surface of the crest of a building sea moves really fast right at the crest so the wave tries to broach the boat in 3 ways.1 The wave presents a sloped surface that a boat can slide down.
2 The wave moves toward the boat effectively pushing it.
3 The wind (driven by friction) blows in the same direction as the wave and the crest being pushed and sucked along the surface adds even more energy to #1 and 2. The trough of the wave complicates matters further by moving in the opposite direction of wind and crest.*Older sail boats w extremely deep keels resist the broaching tendency quite well. If one was to take a GB, Defever or practically any typical trawler, cut it in half and attach bow sections to bow sections. Now the stern is just like the bow. Lets make it long and narrow w a straight keel and attach a large barn door rudder. Give the rudder a good fast power steering system and we'd have a nearly perfect following sea boat. Large rudders affect directional stability a lot. I increased the size of the rudder on my kayak and it only turned slightly better but gained gobs of directional stability. Basically the more the stern of a boat resembles the bow the better it will handle following seas.


Eric


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Friday 11th of June 2010 10:03:21 PM
__________________

Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Early 38' Californian LRC Trawler Edelweiss Californian 7 03-04-2013 01:17 PM
Season is over (too) early dwhatty General Discussion 11 09-23-2011 10:49 AM
help me identify this boat part/object Per General Discussion 24 03-21-2011 11:34 AM
Need a couple of ideas. Capn Chuck General Discussion 8 09-26-2010 09:15 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012