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Old 02-14-2016, 12:15 AM   #1
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NTSB renews El Faro VDR search

NTSB to Launch Second Search Mission to EL FARO
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Old 02-14-2016, 04:31 AM   #2
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And you wonder why the national debt is going up?

IMHO, a grand waste of taxpayers dollars. Perhaps uncle can bill it to the boat owner.
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:44 AM   #3
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Just goes to show how creative one can be when spending someone else's money. Added bonus: if the VDR is found, there has to be a follwup mission to recover it. El Faro sank because it sailed in harm's way and was overpowered by the storm. The rest is a human factors question that will not be illuminated by VDR data.
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsan;
IMHO, a grand waste of taxpayers dollars.
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Originally Posted by sbu22
Just goes to show how creative one can be when spending someone else's money.
Interesting comments and certainly different from the professional mariners over on gCaptain who often have no say in where and when they sail.

"Let's not waste money" may have been the conversation that gave 33 people a burial at sea.
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:54 AM   #5
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"Let's not waste money" may have been the conversation that gave 33 people a burial at sea.
As Bernie Sanders would say, that is a low blow. The issue to me isn't the money, it is whose money. All the costs of this should be billed to the ships owner. They made the decision to send the ship out, not the taxpayer.
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Old 02-14-2016, 11:00 AM   #6
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Yes...but the trick might be....they might have the answer and we don't...neither do the grieving families.

Till the owners are found guilty of negligence...who are they to pay? is the insurance Co partly footing the bill?

They took the risk for pay.....may e they are just as interested and should pony up.

I don't have the answer.... but whometer is looking for answers at this point is paying the bills.

Ultimate payment is still around the corner.
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Old 02-14-2016, 11:17 AM   #7
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I don't have the answer.... but whometer is looking for answers at this point is paying the bills.
I don't profess to have the facts, but my understanding of the matter is the attorneys for the (financially) grieving families addressed the issue to a certain US senator from FL who in turn has pressured the NTSB to continue the search.

Another words they want the US taxpayer to foot the bill to gather more evidence so they can get big time judgements against the ship owner. As usual, the guys that really have an interest in this are the litigating plaintiff's attorneys. I think this is an issue of private interest and not public interest.
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Old 02-14-2016, 11:44 AM   #8
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As Bernie Sanders would say, that is a low blow. The issue to me isn't the money, it is whose money. All the costs of this should be billed to the ships owner. They made the decision to send the ship out, not the taxpayer.
Way too simplistic.
Assuming "they" made the decision to send the ship out, we spectators don't know the intricacies of that decision, nor who made what subsequent decisions over the day and a half following the departure.

Without an investigation we won't know anything about decisions or responsibility. With an investigation we still may not. But, in order to have any investigation, assess and attach culpability, the taxpayer ponies up first.

With up to 48 hours stored on the VDR, there could be a lot of "theys" to choose from. Or not.

Seems fair to me.
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:08 PM   #9
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Assuming "they" made the decision to send the ship out, we spectators don't know the intricacies of that decision, nor who made what subsequent decisions over the day and a half following the departure.

Without an investigation we won't know anything about decisions or responsibility. With an investigation we still may not. But, in order to have any investigation, assess and attach culpability, the taxpayer ponies up first.

With up to 48 hours stored on the VDR, there could be a lot of "theys" to choose from. Or not.

Seems fair to me.
There is an investigation and there has already been an extensive search for the VDR. They were unable to locate it and have no idea where it came off. The issue here is the NTSB has been told to keep looking.

This is not in the public interest. But it makes good conspiracy stories.
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:58 PM   #10
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Is there a number on that "waste"?

Could currently owned ships, manned by paid to go or sit sailors, and burn already funded fuel be the huge waste?

Again, I don't know.

I do know a lot of USCG searches that people worry about costing taxpayers is absolutely wrong. Those tax dollars are funded whether spent on a specific search or not. Wonder if this could be the same.
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:18 PM   #11
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Those tax dollars are funded whether spent on a specific search or not.
Correct me if I am wrong but is there not an element of "research" in a search of this kind? After all how would they have ever developed an AUV capable of 20,000 foot depths, without missions like this? Is there not some "public interest" in most recovery missions?
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:23 PM   #12
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Following your logic, knowledge and beliefs then, Donsan, why not make the families pay?
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:24 PM   #13
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I can only speak of the way the USCG was historically and I suspect currently funded for core missions.

I am only saying that a ship that currently is assigned these types of tasks may be fully funded fod a search like this...but then maybe not.

I don't know, but they certainly are getting more training than sitting at the dock.
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Old 02-14-2016, 02:08 PM   #14
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Following your logic, knowledge and beliefs then, Donsan, why not make the families pay?
I am having hard seeing how you can logically suggest such a thing.

My whole issue is why go back and do a SECOND search for the VDR at taxpayers expense. Wasn't the search, albeit in 15,000 ft of water performed correctly in the first place? Is there a duty to search the total ocean floor bottom until it is found? I believe what was done previously was reasonable.

IMHO, the mission of the USCG and the NTSB does not require unlimited evidence searches solely for the benefit of plaintiff attorneys. They have more important things to do with their time and resources.
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Old 02-14-2016, 02:51 PM   #15
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Maybe not at the moment.
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:26 PM   #16
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I found the VDR. All that is on it is one word....."Oops"
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:46 PM   #17
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Thank you, Pgitug. Succinct.
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Old 02-15-2016, 12:18 AM   #18
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I think people with more knowledge of the investigation, of findings to date, of what value they feel this might have are the ones to make the decision to return. That was not initially in their plans so something which has been learned during the investigation to this point has made them feel stronger about trying to locate the recorder.

Major accidents like this need full investigation if they're going to be prevented in the future and, often, if the responsible parties are to be held responsible. Whether it's tour buses, airplanes or boats, I think it's worthwhile. It may prevent similar some time in the future.
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Old 02-16-2016, 09:12 AM   #19
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The VDR is a smoke screen. Diversion. Red Herring.

The meat and potatoes is the hull condition, the machinery condition, a 40 year sold converted rust bucket and the legal authority, inspection oversight and insurance guidelines that allowed such a travesty to sail are the real issues.

The VDR is just fluff.

Hull wastage, machinery being rebuilt 'in situ Underway' and inspection responsibilities are the key.
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Old 02-16-2016, 09:27 AM   #20
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All those things may be contributing factors, but still not the cause of the accident.

Probably why they are conducting an investigation.
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