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Old 04-26-2016, 01:37 PM   #161
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Exactly my point, shrimper, tug/barge, or freighter.....you never know what you might hit or be hit by with just AIS.....So vigilance is required with or with out it.

Handy yes, but for a smaller recreational boat not normally in heavy shipping (including barge traffic)..... it is basically not providing info on 90% of the targets.

I just spent the last 4 days northbound on the Chesapeake.....99% of the near passes I encountered were with all vessels with no AIS. Just by listening to the VHS, I pretty well knew all the names f the traffic that DID have AIS because they were calling each other and making security calls.

I have and use the receive only AIS in my radio, but it is such a tiny part of what is going on....if it wasn't there 99 percent of the time, I wouldn't miss it. That 1% of the time, like radar....I would probably run out and buy it.....

I more definitely would if I was in a really hairy area or traveled more at night or bad weather....but my experience with it is based on the last 10,000 miles of the Delaware River, Chesapeake, Norfolk Naval, ACIW between Norfolk and Ft Pierce, Fl. Some would think those areas as busy...but they really aren't unless you are in the bad areas every day.

So if it sounds like I have mixed feelings about it.....you are right on track.
I can tell you one thing....I use my AIS about 99% more than I use my radar. You are correct...it is "just" a resource. But I believe it is a more valuable resource than you are saying it is. Maybe it is just where I boat. I generally boat in the GICW near Houston/Galveston. There is an INSANE amount of commercial traffic and it helps tremendously to be able to hail a ship or barge by name...instead of hailing...."....uhhhhhhh....Floatsome & Jetsome.....uhhhh....calling the westbound barge that is....uuuuhhhh.....at the 366 mile marker....." Instead of a simple "Brownwater 3 you up on channel 16?".

Some people may consider AIS a collision avoidance tool. While it does aid in collision avoidance, I do not think it is a "direct" or instantaneous tool used for collision avoidance. THAT is what the radar is for. Radar is "real". But AIS can give you a large amount of critical data that you can take into account to make a decision. But the biggest aid, IMO, is simply identifying the boat you are trying to coordinate with.
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Old 04-26-2016, 01:56 PM   #162
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Or if you use a PO Box as the address...
You can for the mailing address, but they do require a physical address too.
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Old 04-26-2016, 02:04 PM   #163
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See....after 35 years of professional boating radio use...I rarely use it unless I absolutely have to or am called first. I find most boaters are just as bad driving as using the radio. Cant tell you how many boats arranged passes with me this trip and still went on the other side....or the ones that never called, or did the pass so bad it didn't matter.

Even in the narrow ICW....I rarely talk to the tug and tows as they see I am giving them the room they need and they don't bother calling me either.

Big ships...some of you don't get....you can do anything you want as they arent going to chang a thing They are sticking to the channel, on course and on speed. You can do whatever and unless you it looks like you are going to get run over...they never seem to call me or other boats I see.

Maybe if I was running a much faster boat it might be different...we will see this summer when I switched h commercial jobs. But I really doubt it...maybe my training and experience allows me to see what they are doing and avoid...and going faster y just means I am doing the chess pieces a bit further out...but I don't think it will change my mind.

I look at it this way...I just follow the rules, yet take corrective action in time to avoid close calls. If one does happen...I know I can stop my boat or turn away from danger in less than a couple hundred feet and avoid all but the most impossible situations....I did it for years TOWING boats let alone the luxury of only my own. So what the rest of the world does is of little concern to me till they violate the rules to the point of collision...and generally I have found the radio usually doesn't avoid or fix those situations....

Again...some boats, captains and places I see AIS as almost indespensible...but for much of the trawler in I do and where I do it....very little need for one.
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Old 04-26-2016, 02:25 PM   #164
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See....after 35 years of professional boating radio use...I rarely use it unless I absolutely have to or am called first. I find most boaters are just as bad driving as using the radio. Cant tell you how many boats arranged passes with me this trip and still went on the other side....or the ones that never called, or did the pass so bad it didn't matter.

Even in the narrow ICW....I rarely talk to the tug and tows as they see I am giving them the room they need and they don't bother calling me either.

Big ships...some of you don't get....you can do anything you want as they arent going to chang a thing They are sticking to the channel, on course and on speed. You can do whatever and unless you it looks like you are going to get run over...they never seem to call me or other boats I see.

Maybe if I was running a much faster boat it might be different...we will see this summer when I switched h commercial jobs. But I really doubt it...maybe my training and experience allows me to see what they are doing and avoid...and going faster y just means I am doing the chess pieces a bit further out...but I don't think it will change my mind.

Again...some boats, captains and places I see AIS as almost indespensible...but for much of the trawler in I do and where I do it....very little need for one.
I quoted the whole thing because it is relevant. I do understand and agree with what you said. BUT, why not supplement it with "hard data"? You draw upon your experiences and I do as well...and that is where I am coming from. My experience tells me, if you have a resource, why not use it?? Yes, your movements and that of the conflicting party generally give you an idea of how it is all happening. But why not confirm it? In aviation we have a term we use VVM....Verbalize. Verify. Monitor. Verbalize your intent. Verify it by calling the conflicting party. And Monitor the situation to make sure it goes as planned.

In the airlines, we can fly stick and rudder really well. The airplanes we fly are extremely reliable. We generally do really well in "non-normal" situations. But why do extremely well trained experienced pilots fly perfectly good airplanes into the terrain??? That is a rhetorical question and that is where Aviation safety is today. Cognitive bias is somewhat of a new buzzword in aviation and it is very relevant here.
<< A cognitive bias refers to a systematic pattern of deviation from norm or rationality in judgment, whereby inferences about other people and situations may be drawn in an illogical fashion. Individuals create their own "subjective social reality" from their perception of the input.>>

Can you not see yourself making an "inference" about how the conflicting party will react and then draw conclusions and decision based on that inference??? There may even be another party involved that you do not see and that would be identified by the radio call and then BOOM...a completely different picture in your head...one that was completely different from the picture you had before.

Please realize I am not attacking you in any way. I just find this stuff fascinating and it is totally applicable to boating. I apologize if I am way off subject here but it is the cutting edge of safety and how the mind works. Truly fascinating stuff!!!
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Old 04-26-2016, 02:35 PM   #165
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Maybe because all those hours zipping around at 200 feet in the fog and rain, without radar or gps makes me think that far ahead. That includes tall vessels also out there in the search areasmoving around without hailing the helo on their intentions.

At 6 knots, I worry more about taking a nap before the next mark or the CPA than hitting them.

I guess the info from AIS, except for the name isn't usually much different or important from what I can see and guess bases on the traffic.

This year, 2500 miles and not one travel day in the dark or limited vis. The previous 3 years to/from Fl, only a handful and they could have been avoided for the most part.

New England in the summer or Gulf Coast in the winter...and yeah...it would definitely be used more I am guessing due to limited vis.

But out of all my nav equipment...it was the last and remains there on my list of importance because of me, my boat and my travels. Others may definitely have it placed much higher.
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Old 04-26-2016, 02:43 PM   #166
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Maybe because all those hours zipping around at 200 feet in the fog and rain, without radar or gps makes me think that far ahead. That includes tall vessels also out there in the search areasmoving around without hailing the helo on their intentions.

At 6 knots, I worry more about taking a nap before the next mark or the CPA than hitting them.

I guess the info from AIS, except for the name isn't usually much different or important from what I can see and guess bases on the traffic.

This year, 2500 miles and not one travel day in the dark or limited vis. The previous 3 years to/from Fl, only a handful and they could have been avoided for the most part.

New England in the summer or Gulf Coast in the winter...and yeah...it would definitely be used more I am guessing due to limited vis.

But out of all my nav equipment...it was the last and remains there on my list of importance because of me, my boat and my travels. Others may definitely have it placed much higher.
I could name about 6 "cognitive biases" in that post!!!!

But seriously, there is a lot of merit to your post about speed. Who is gonna die at 6 knots??? I do cruise my boat at around 17 knots. I guess a lot more shit can happen at that speed. Equipment can get destroyed and people actually can get hurt. So maybe as it applies to going 6 knots none of this matters. But like you, I draw on my operational experiences. And I choose to operate my boat accordingly.
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Old 04-26-2016, 03:08 PM   #167
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I'm thinking about getting an AIS receiver/transponder thingamajig.
I would go for it. Agreed that unfortunately all traffic isn't on board yet. (I went by a CG cutter and they weren't transmitting? WTH?)

But surely as time goes by more and more will. Remember too that people can turn off the transmit function. So while you can't see their AIS, they see yours. Lord knows why people would turn off TX but I have seen it.

If it just keeps you out of trouble one time it was worth it. (my .02)
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Old 04-26-2016, 03:20 PM   #168
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USCG AIS requirements

Summary of AIS requirements.
Effective March 2nd, 2015, certain commercially self-propelled vessels must have a properly installed, operational Automatic Identification System (AIS) no later than March 1st, 2016. The following vessels are required to install and use a Class A AIS transponder:
  • All commercial vessels of 65 feet or more in length (except as defined below)
  • Towing vessels of 26 feet or more in length and more than 600 horsepower
  • Vessels certificated to carry more than 150 passengers
  • Passenger vessels that are 65 feet or more and certificated to carry less than 150 passengers but operate in a Vessel Traffic Service area or at speeds in excess of 14 knots
  • Dredges that operate near a commercial channel
  • Vessels engaged in the movement of certain dangerous cargo, or flammable or combustible liquid cargo in bulk
In addition, the following vessels will be required to install and use at least a Class B AIS transponder:
  • Commercial fishing vessels that are 65 feet or more in length
  • Commercial passenger vessels that are 65 feet or more and are certificated to carry less than 150 passengers but do not operate in a Vessel Traffic Service area or at speeds in excess of 14 knots
  • Dredges operating outside shipping fairways
Vessels that operate solely within a very confined area, or on only short scheduled voyages; or that are not likely to encounter other AIS-equipped vessels; or whose design or construction makes it impracticable to operate an AIS device may seek up to a 5-year deviation from this requirement.


Copied below from the Federal Register.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) AIS Class A device. The following vessels must have on board a properly installed, operational USCG Type-approved* AIS Class A device: (i) A self-propelled vessel of 65 feet or more in length, engaged in commercial service.
(ii) A towing vessel of 26 feet or more in length and more than 600 horsepower, engaged in commercial service.
(iii) A self-propelled vessel that is certificated to carry more than 150 passengers.
(iv) A self-propelled vessel engaged in dredging operations in or near a commercial channel or shipping fairway in a manner likely to restrict or affect navigation of other vessels.
(v) A self-propelled vessel engaged in the movement of –
(A) Certain dangerous cargo as defined in subpart C of part 160 of this chapter, or
(B) Flammable or combustible liquid cargo in bulk that is listed in 46 CFR 30.25–1, Table 30.25–1.
(2) AIS Class B device. AIS Class B device in lieu of an AIS Class A device is permissible on the following vessels if they are not subject to pilotage by other than the vessel Master or crew:
(i) fishing industry vessels;
(ii) Vessels identified in paragraph (b)(1)(i) of this section that are certificated to carry less than 150 passengers and that–
(A) Do not operate in a Vessel Traffic Service (VTS) or Vessel Movement Reporting System (VMRS) area defined in Table 161.12(c) of § 161.12 of this chapter, and
(B) Do not operate at speeds in excess of 14 knots; and
(iii) Vessels identified in paragraph (b)(1)(iv) of this section engaged in dredging operations.
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Old 04-26-2016, 03:35 PM   #169
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This year, 2500 miles and not one travel day in the dark or limited vis. The previous 3 years to/from Fl, only a handful and they could have been avoided for the most part.

New England in the summer or Gulf Coast in the winter...and yeah...it would definitely be used more I am guessing due to limited vis.

.
That's the key, all our different situations and uses of our boats. We do sometimes travel overnight, although we never enter a port at night, always time it for after daylight. Outside of Port Everglades and maybe a very rare occasion somewhere else, we don't leave ports at night.

So far this year we've cruised overnight 3 times. We probably won't do it at all over the next 6 months. Entirely different cruising grounds. Last year we did 10 overnights in the first five months and only 1 the rest of the year.

Now, I'm not sure AIS ever helped us except giving us the name of an approaching boat. However, if I'm cruising down the west coast of Central America, I'm not going to do much talking on the radio except when almost to the marina.
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Old 04-26-2016, 04:28 PM   #170
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Get back to us tommorrow, maybe then, ...


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Old 04-26-2016, 04:52 PM   #171
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You can for the mailing address, but they do require a physical address too.
But they only publish the mailing address. So it means you're not advertising the address that's vacant (the original concern). I have a PO Box and it's what is showing in the database.

Come to think of it I don't recall giving them any physical address. I'd have to check my forms when I get home.

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Old 04-26-2016, 08:02 PM   #172
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...

Big ships...some of you don't get....you can do anything you want as they arent going to change a thing They are sticking to the channel, on course and on speed. You can do whatever and unless you it looks like you are going to get run over...they never seem to call me or other boats I see. ...
I agree. We're in a "land" of narrow shipping channels, so ships have little room to maneuver and tugs with barges show little incentive to maneuver. Thankfully, the fast (40 smph) commuter ferries avoid close contact. Makes it easy-peasy. Upon first observation, figure your maneuver to avoid.

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Old 04-26-2016, 11:56 PM   #173
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On Sunday, I crossed the shipping traffic separation lanes in Georgia Strait. I had the VHF on channel 11, so was able to listen to the chatter between the big ships and Victoria Traffic. My AIS receiver (on my cellphone, Boatbeacon App) so I knew who was chatting with Traffic. What I listened to was a responsible ship helmsman discussing a pleasure boat who was crossing in front of him, getting his course and speed, making sure that he was clear of the path of the deep sea freighter.
My AIS receiver tells me who they are, what our Closest Point of Approach is, how fast they are going, allowing me to stay well clear and have a relaxing crossing.
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:08 AM   #174
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My AIS receiver (on my cellphone, Boatbeacon App) ..........
Is the Boatbeacon App an AIS receiver???
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:15 AM   #175
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The Boatbeacon App is an App. It receives whatever the internet base sends it. My experience with it so far, over a couple of years, is that it is in real time, accurately putting targets on the satellite map exactly where they should be. In some locations, where the internet coverage is poor, the updates are less frequent, so the positioning will lag, but in busy areas, it is all good.
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Old 04-27-2016, 08:15 AM   #176
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Is the Boatbeacon App an AIS receiver???


No. An AIS receiver gets the data realtime and directly from the transmitter on the boat. The app, relays data that ground based antennas receive. You'll need a data connection (wifi or cell) to get it. It's close to real time but can be off by minutes.
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Old 04-27-2016, 09:12 AM   #177
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Many sailboaters think they have the right of way over large ships and expect them to alter course to avoid them. Just read the posts on Cruisers & Sailing Forums


I have been in situations where contacting large ships was necessary. Not that I expect them to change course or speed to avoid me, but to find out their intentions so I can avoid them. AIS would be nice in this situation so I could call them by name, not "freighter near marker 45" or such.
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Old 04-27-2016, 09:20 AM   #178
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Many sailboaters think they have the right of way over large ships and expect them to alter course to avoid them. Just read the posts on Cruisers & Sailing Forums


I have been in situations where contacting large ships was necessary. Not that I expect them to change course or speed to avoid me, but to find out their intentions so I can avoid them. AIS would be nice in this situation so I could call them by name, not "freighter near marker 45" or such.

Yes. Same goes for calling barge captains using the boat name. They already see you on their AIS so when you call them they always answer. If I'm coming up to a bend I ask them where they want me to be.

When they can't see me visually they are usually surprised when they finally lay eyes on my little boat. Which doesn't make sense because I think my size data should be on their screen.
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:32 PM   #179
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No. An AIS receiver gets the data realtime and directly from the transmitter on the boat. The app, relays data that ground based antennas receive. You'll need a data connection (wifi or cell) to get it. It's close to real time but can be off by minutes.
I was under that impression. He called his app his "AIS receiver". That is not a very good way of looking at it. So I asked the question to clarify. So I assume it is the same thing as Marine traffic....
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Old 04-27-2016, 01:56 PM   #180
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While there is probably no place I can't operate without AIS, every time I cruise the ICW I have a situation that makes me glad I have it. Cruising up Chesapeake bay at dusk on Wednesday in a shipping channel, I have a vessel on the reciprocal course.....on my side. He looks to be about 50' LOA and making 7 to 10 knots from the bow appearance. While moving out of the channel is a possiblity, we are in the land of crap pots.

Have him on AIS making 14 knots and 130' LOA. It's the Navy vessel "Reliant" or something like that. Quick call on vhf 16 confirms that I will be changing course for a starboard to starboard pass (navy doesn't alter course).

The AIS gave me the vessel name, speed (more than I thought), size (much larger than I thought), and who was had the right of way. Certainly could have avoided any problem without it. Just so much easier with it.

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