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Old 09-07-2016, 10:36 AM   #41
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I've also stayed at Fred's dock. He is no nonsense, DIY kind of guy. I respect the way he lives. If the sh%t hits the fan, you want to be with Fred. I respect the way anyone wants to live and boat-- and I'm sure you do as well WifeyB.
Also had the privilege of doing an overnight at Fred's. His consistent advice of simplicity is nearly as legendary as is his hospitality and application of unique nomenclature, and long before I got here. I'm hardly offended when he sometimes pokes fun at the overly-complex systems of my 36 ft. roomorand! His is an idea of adding value and economy through simplicity, not austerity.
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:56 PM   #42
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Would a buyers broker help me focus some? I will admit my list of wants and needs is fairly generic, which doesn't help. Comfier bed (no preference vs v-berth, centerline, athwartships, pullman, etc.), larger galley, more room for freinds/family to go out, more tankage. . .prefer non-turbo diesel.

That Hatteras and Catalina are a bit apart on the comparison scale, but I've focused slightly since then. Just from my live aboard experience, I'd really like to be able to squeeze some kind of laundry facilities into the boat. Even if it is a Splendide for rainy days.

Is a buyers broker someone you hire? is there a list of them out there like a SAMS surveyors?

Ranger42c, that was more to illustrate my lack of understanding. There seems a big price disparity between the 2 examples (or with a grand banks). Given similar conditions, I'm not sure why I would pay more for one over the other.

As with B&B's advice of a buyers broker, would they steer me clear of crap? Not that I was shopping for it on purpose (as least I don't think I was). Most of the brokers I've dealt with so far were either "mailing it in" or wanted a contract (to be expected I guess).

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What do you consider turn key and what do you expect for 50-60k?
To me, "turn key" would be something I could take out the following weekend without having to worry about anything mechanically for at least awhile (within reason). Cosmetics doesn't come into play, unless the PO turned it into something aesthetically gross that I wouldn't buy.

For $50-60k I expect a "turn key" boat as I've defined it. I'm not shopping for bargain kadey-krogens. I'm looking at older, mass produced, middle of the road production boats. I don't (at least I didn't) think I was being unreasonable

Appreciate all the advice, but I got homework to do so no wall of text tonight
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Old 09-07-2016, 07:04 PM   #43
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Would a buyers broker help me focus some?
I believe a good buyer's broker would. You just ask about brokers in your area and find someone who others recommend.

If you can't find one, finding a friend you trust to not try to push his view on you, but to just force you to focus a bit more.

And the other possibility is putting some things in writing. With all your requirements in writing then as you see boats online you have something to evaluate against. And I wouldn't make any more long trips without being provided some current pictures determined by you.

Right now you're searching for something that may not exist exactly as you prefer but you haven't determined which of your desires are really important to you.

Is $50-60k your initial purchase amount or does that include all work to be done to get it as you want? If it does, then you're probably looking for boats in the $40k to a max of $50k range.

In doing a little search, one thing I noticed is a lot of sportfishing boats in your range.
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Old 09-07-2016, 07:53 PM   #44
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Would a buyers broker help me focus some? I will admit my list of wants and needs is fairly generic, which doesn't help. Comfier bed (no preference vs v-berth, centerline, athwartships, pullman, etc.), larger galley, more room for freinds/family to go out, more tankage. . .prefer non-turbo diesel.

That Hatteras and Catalina are a bit apart on the comparison scale, but I've focused slightly since then. Just from my live aboard experience, I'd really like to be able to squeeze some kind of laundry facilities into the boat. Even if it is a Splendide for rainy days.

Is a buyers broker someone you hire? is there a list of them out there like a SAMS surveyors?

Ranger42c, that was more to illustrate my lack of understanding. There seems a big price disparity between the 2 examples (or with a grand banks). Given similar conditions, I'm not sure why I would pay more for one over the other.

As with B&B's advice of a buyers broker, would they steer me clear of crap? Not that I was shopping for it on purpose (as least I don't think I was). Most of the brokers I've dealt with so far were either "mailing it in" or wanted a contract (to be expected I guess).



To me, "turn key" would be something I could take out the following weekend without having to worry about anything mechanically for at least awhile (within reason). Cosmetics doesn't come into play, unless the PO turned it into something aesthetically gross that I wouldn't buy.

For $50-60k I expect a "turn key" boat as I've defined it. I'm not shopping for bargain kadey-krogens. I'm looking at older, mass produced, middle of the road production boats. I don't (at least I didn't) think I was being unreasonable

Appreciate all the advice, but I got homework to do so no wall of text tonight
For $50k asking...a decent boat will come along, far from perfect...but not necessarily a project boat if you stay 36 feet and below in the typical trawler arena. Old Trojans, Pacemakers, Silvertons, etc...etc can be a good buy for way less...again in the 36 foot range and down. Trawlers in the 40 and up range, to get beyond project boat, look in the $80K to $100K range and expect to pay around $75K.

At least that was my exoerience..a broker may find a better range.

Mine was in the upper $50 range and was cruising ready...but still was disintegrating faster than I can keep up on now a 8 to 10 year rebuild plan...fortunately had a newly rebuilt engine.
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Old 09-08-2016, 06:40 AM   #45
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"but still was disintegrating faster than I can keep up on now a 8 to 10 year rebuild plan.."

This comment is the key to pleasant boat ownership.

Some construction methods are doomed to fail , eventually and constantly.

Learning which boats do not require constant deck and PH rebuilds will save a load of future effort and grief..
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:13 AM   #46
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anger42c, that was more to illustrate my lack of understanding. There seems a big price disparity between the 2 examples (or with a grand banks). Given similar conditions, I'm not sure why I would pay more for one over the other.

As with B&B's advice of a buyers broker, would they steer me clear of crap?
Not that I was shopping for it on purpose (as least I don't think I was). Most of the brokers I've dealt with so far were either "mailing it in" or wanted a contract (to be expected I guess).

Fair enough, but I'd guess in general your "lack of understanding" -- in an example like that specific one -- was maybe exactly in tune with what your reaction should have been. IOW, I suspect sellers some times pull asking prices out of their... ummm... nostrils... and you'd be right to query price disparities.

As to buyer's brokers... I think potentially very useful (we had great success with one, once)... but there's brokers and then there's brokers... and to be fair, you gotta give them something to work with. A list of requirements, broken down in some semi-prioritized manner... otherwise, all they've got is a scattergun, too.

FWIW, I can maybe help a bit, with one specific brand... not to help you find and buy one of those, but rather to help you use those to examine what your requirements might be. Sort of a "examine by example" approach. If you want to pursue that, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

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Old 09-08-2016, 11:32 AM   #47
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Beans, I think the problem is that your price and expectations are too far apart. Sure there are plenty of boats on the market that aren't priced reasonably, but I think you have to expect that a 25 year old boat is going to have issues.

I sold my 1983 Catalina 36 six years ago. It was at the the time that was bottom of the boat market. The boat was in decent shape, the motor was in decent shape, the batteries were getting a bit old, and the electronics, while not original, weren't entirely new either. Lots of upgrades, but it was still an old boat. It did have soft spots on the deck that would take about $10k to have professionally repaired. That was the only major issue the boat had. I sold it for $24k. It was "turn-key" in that it was ready to cruise safely, but it was not in perfect condition by any stretch. The motor was dirty, the bilge wasn't squeaky clean but it didn't smell and it was very dry inside (other than the bilge since it is a keel stepped mast in the PNW).

My point is that if you want a boat that won't take work, don't get a boat. If you want a boat that doesn't show its years, buy a new boat. The market is a pretty simple sliding scale. The cleaner and better condition the boat, the higher the price. The more tired a boat is, the lower the price. So unless you just have had the misfortune to look at boats that are unreasonably priced, I think you need to adjust your budget, your expectations, or both.

A buyers broker could be helpful but as BandB said, only after you have clearly identified what you are looking for. A broker can tell you what a reasonable price range would be for the type of boat you are looking for.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:03 PM   #48
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Lots to digest and think about. One conclusion I've come to is my quest for a large boat was to make up for the short comings of my home marina which is a working boatyard. Nice that they let a few of us stay there, and it is inexpensive, but has it's draw backs. Biggest for me have been the lack of usable showers and no onsite laundry. Driving to go do laundry or take a hot shower at the gym gets old quick.

So for now I'm taking a break from boat shopping. Going to use my boat at least thru the fall with out thinking about having to try and sell 'er. I'm also going to start a lease on a slip in one of the nicest, if not most expensive, marinas in the area. Might as well go full tilt and move into a Yachtsman's Marina

Maybe a change like this will lead to a change in perspective. I'll follow up some more later, right now it's time for bed
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:58 PM   #49
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Maybe a change like this will lead to a change in perspective. I'll follow up some more later, right now it's time for bed
I think it very well could. You think at first the shortcomings of the other marina won't bother you, but then you realize they are cutting back your enjoyment.

I'm not familiar with Yachtsman's. Where is it?
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Old 09-13-2016, 11:28 AM   #50
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I'm also going to start a lease on a slip in one of the nicest, if not most expensive, marinas in the area. Might as well go full tilt and move into a Yachtsman's Marina
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I'm not familiar with Yachtsman's. Where is it?
I believe "Yachtsman" is a type and not a specific marina. In other words a marina that caters to men that own yachts and not a working marina such as he is in now.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:08 PM   #51
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FWIW, I'm behind WifeyB 100%.

.....and I agree, it's off-putting to have to swallow the mentality of opinion being presented as FACT. Sometimes people try to jam opinion down your throat as fact.
sometimes it to the point where I have to skip over certain people's posts to avoid rolling my eyes and shaking my head.

This is particularly the case when opinion is presented as "This is the way everyone does it". When, in FACT, it more commonly is NOT.
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Old 09-15-2016, 09:31 PM   #52
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The marinas name is Vinings Landing in Norfolk, about as close to a Yachtsman Marina as you'll find around here. Nice upgrade from where I'm at. Start in October.

This will be interesting to see if the nicer marina can make up for what I was looking for in a larger boat. I'm going to run this personal experiment over the winter and pick up the search again in the spring. Lots to think about.

Yalls wealth of knowledge and experience is very helpful! Send me your address and I'll mail you a beer
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Old 09-15-2016, 09:42 PM   #53
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What amenities do "yachtsmen" marinas offer? The nicest I have been to are associated with a high-end hotel, but we don't take advantage of the amenities, for the most part. Are we missing out on something?
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Old 09-15-2016, 09:45 PM   #54
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What amenities do "yachtsmen" marinas offer? The nicest I have been to are associated with a high-end hotel, but we don't take advantage of the amenities, for the most part. Are we missing out on something?
Wifey B: Great indoor pools, spas, tennis courts? Not saying this one, just the fancy ones you're talking about.
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Old 09-15-2016, 10:00 PM   #55
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The marinas name is Vinings Landing in Norfolk, about as close to a Yachtsman Marina as you'll find around here. Nice upgrade from where I'm at. Start in October.

This will be interesting to see if the nicer marina can make up for what I was looking for in a larger boat. I'm going to run this personal experiment over the winter and pick up the search again in the spring. Lots to think about.

Yalls wealth of knowledge and experience is very helpful! Send me your address and I'll mail you a beer
Wifey B: Hope it really works for you. Very mixed reviews. I haven't been there. We've mostly ended up in Portsmouth or Hampton and Waterside in Norfolk.
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Old 09-17-2016, 09:45 AM   #56
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What amenities do "yachtsmen" marinas offer? The nicest I have been to are associated with a high-end hotel, but we don't take advantage of the amenities, for the most part. Are we missing out on something?
Compared to what? Compared to where I'm at now, I'd consider it a yachtsmen marina. I've seen better in other places though (trying to stay close to work, limited choice).

Current marina offers fixed docks with micro finger piers that regularly flood, gravel/shell parking, basically unusable shower. . .water until he turns it off in the winter. This is also the fishing boat unloading site.

Where I'm moving has full length floating docks, wifi, cable, paved parking, nice shower house, laundry, pool. Not nearly as bad as the couple recent reviews I've seen online would indicate.

I guess it is all a matter of perspective

B&B, I agree the nicest marinas I've ever seen are in p-town and and hampton. I work in Hilltop near the beach and can't make the drive
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Old 09-17-2016, 10:14 AM   #57
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B&B, I agree the nicest marinas I've ever seen are in p-town and and hampton. I work in Hilltop near the beach and can't make the drive
Convenience offsets a lot.
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Old 09-17-2016, 10:35 AM   #58
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Yalls wealth of knowledge and experience is very helpful! Send me your address and I'll mail you a beer
Easy fix, Beans. Just send your gift beers to:

Larry's Gift Beer Distribution Co.
Longboat Key, FL 34228

You can trust me to make sure that all worthy thread contributors receive their goods. Let's see now, that's 57 posts so far....., yeah, a couple of cases should do it!
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