Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-13-2018, 09:30 AM   #1
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,742
Not strong enough for docking a bigger boat??

I often see comments that people avoid larger boats because of concern that they are not strong enough to handle the docking of a larger boat.

IMO if you need strength you are not doing it right.

A single engine boat is more problematic but a twin engine boat should be able to dance around without need for strength.

My instructions to crew has always been keep your hands inside the boat and simply place the dock line where it needs to go when the boat gets in position. It is the driver's responsibility to get the boat where it needs to be for initial docking. Once two lines are fastened the driver can then assist is any additional lines or positioning the boat. Even then the boats power can help

If you doubt this watch ferries or other smaller commercial boats dock. The crew never tries to manhandle the boat.
__________________
Advertisement

bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 10:16 AM   #2
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,784
Two lines? One amidships should do the trick.
__________________

__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 10:40 AM   #3
Guru
 
Steve91T's Avatar
 
City: Huntersville NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47í Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 705
I agree. We are new to the big boat thing but we have a good systems down. My 31’ Mainship is a bit like a sailboat, so docking in the wind can be a challenge. My wife will jump off the stern once it’s safe, secure a live then walk to get front where I’ll throw her the bow line. If it’s windy where I could loose the nose of the boat while she’s securing the stern, I’ll just make sure to have a deckhand there to help.
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 10:49 AM   #4
Guru
 
MYTraveler's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,034
My displacement is 100,000 pounds. No amount of human strength (especially given traction limitations) is going to move it in any meaningful way. Fortunately, twin engines, a bow thruster, wing stations and good close quarters maneuvering skills make it completely unnecessary.
MYTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 10:50 AM   #5
Guru
 
IRENE's Avatar
 
City: Port Angeles, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irene
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 695
Bayview,

I couldn't agree more. There should be NO body parts outside the gunwale, no boat hooks, no screaming. If the operator can't get the boat where it can be simply secured, then try another approach. Perhaps more training is needed.

For years we have watched the near-carnage at every marina. Just Friday morning, I watched a halibut fisherman push his boat out of the slip and jump on. He then remained in neutral and blew to the end of the fairway. Fisherman #2 got on the dock, pushed them off, and literally hurled himself onto the bow. Watching this hurt my knees. All this on a directed-thrust boat under 25'.

My wife and I once chartered a 29' Hunter (#8000) in the North Channel. At the "captain's brief" the head-guy-in-charge looked at my wife (#120) and told her to fend-off with a boat hook when docking. We kept quiet, but the only thing the boat hook would do is keep her from squishing her fingers and arms.

This is pleasure boating and it is supposed to be fun. If it would be beneficial, grab an old salt on the dock, hire a captain that knows how to do it, or invest in some professional training. The time spent growing will be well worth it to all aboard.

Be careful out there!
__________________
Jeff
MV IRENE
IRENE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 10:54 AM   #6
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Two lines? One amidships should do the trick.
YES! And please keep your crew off the swim platform.
__________________
Jay Leonard
Attitude Adjustment
40 Albin
Mystic,Ct. /New Port Richey,Fl
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:00 AM   #7
Guru
 
MYTraveler's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,034
And a comment about using dock lines to control a moving boat. IMO, it can be very dangerous to try to control a heavy boat using nylon dock lines. Those lines stretch and can hold alot of energy. If the dock clean breaks off, the dock line turns that cleat into a sling shot heading directly toward the boat cleat. Best case would be that the cleat hits the boat and does some damage. But if it hits a person, not good.
MYTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 11:36 AM   #8
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,146
Several times I've briefed the same....no hands outside the boat, no fending off, just wrap the spring line to the dock cleat and let me know when it's secure...then I'll come and help. Then the next thing I see is the guest stepping off the boat at the dock to secure the spring line!

Obviously I need to be more specific about NOT leaving the boat until I say it's OK.
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 12:17 PM   #9
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by MYTraveler View Post
My displacement is 100,000 pounds. No amount of human strength (especially given traction limitations) is going to move it in any meaningful way. Fortunately, twin engines, a bow thruster, wing stations and good close quarters maneuvering skills make it completely unnecessary.
Show off!
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 12:32 PM   #10
Guru
 
siestakey's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota,FL/Thomasville,GA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Steppin Stone IV
Vessel Model: Marine Trader Kelly Trawler 46
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,792
Send a message via Skype™ to siestakey
Good thread bayview and agree my wife is 120lbs soaking wet. We tell everyone please stay seated and keep your hands inside the boat and to stay silent while we a re docking( the only person that disobeyed the talking order was my mother a few years ago I put her in time out). Our system works very well gets the 2 spring lines on and the rest is all easy
__________________
Alan
Skype roatan63
siestakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 12:37 PM   #11
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7,948
I finally realized this when we moved to a Catalina 36. Up to the Cal 29, the boat could be fended off. Beyond that, there was no way. For a dinghy sailor, it was a hard transition to make. Now of course, I don't even have the urge to fend off a big boat.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 12:54 PM   #12
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post
Several times I've briefed the same....no hands outside the boat, no fending off, just wrap the spring line to the dock cleat and let me know when it's secure...then I'll come and help. Then the next thing I see is the guest stepping off the boat at the dock to secure the spring line!

Obviously I need to be more specific about NOT leaving the boat until I say it's OK.
In the first summer we had our boat a friend did the same thing, despite me telling him that if things went squirrelly I had no problem backing off and trying again. Nobody's perfect, especially when climbing up the bottom part of the learning curve.

We he leapt to the dock with line gripped tightly in hand a part of me said, "Hit reverse, goose it, and just pull him in" but didn't. Luckily it wasn't windy, there was no current, we were almost stopped anyways, our boat is small enough, and he man handled it into our slip.

Sure was tempting though!
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 01:35 PM   #13
GFC
Guru
 
GFC's Avatar
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Beachcomber
Vessel Model: Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,531
We do things a bit differently than some of you. My wife is my deck hand and she stays in the cockpit until I have backed in far enough to where she can safely step off onto the dock. The only yelling involved is when she yells to me "I'm off, Mike" to let me know that she's off the boat (I can't see the stern from the helm because of the cockpit bimini.)


I stay at the helm to bring the bow to the port finger pier so she can fasten that bow line first. Then she works her way down the port side attaching lines as she goes. At that point I go down to help with the remainder of the lines.


It's a system that we've perfected over the years and it works well for us. YMMV.
__________________
Mike and Tina
Beachcomber 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
GFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 03:01 PM   #14
Guru
 
Steve91T's Avatar
 
City: Huntersville NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Abeona
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 47í Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by GFC View Post
We do things a bit differently than some of you. My wife is my deck hand and she stays in the cockpit until I have backed in far enough to where she can safely step off onto the dock. The only yelling involved is when she yells to me "I'm off, Mike" to let me know that she's off the boat (I can't see the stern from the helm because of the cockpit bimini.)


I stay at the helm to bring the bow to the port finger pier so she can fasten that bow line first. Then she works her way down the port side attaching lines as she goes. At that point I go down to help with the remainder of the lines.


It's a system that we've perfected over the years and it works well for us. YMMV.
We do the exact same thing. Works great.
Steve91T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 03:09 PM   #15
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,470
I live on a 83', 80 ton boat. I solo more often than with passengers. I'm also 70 years old. I have severe arthritis in my hands. But neither age or arthritis stops me. Most yachtsmen don't take the time to really learn boat handling. They approach it as if driving a car with wheels.

The boat gets into dock position, the lines secure it. In more difficult conditions the use of spring lines help get the boat in position.
I usually dock with 1 spring line from mid bow to a dock cleat past midships. I have the spring fastened and ready to drop on a cleat before approaching the dock. I leave one engine in gear pushing against the spring and set my other lines. Not much different that how I docked ships.
If people would take a day or several days and learn their boat, docking would not be difficult. There are many professional books available that describe the forces affecting boat movement and how to control it.
In the hundreds and maybe thousands of dockings I have done, single and twin, current or slack, windy or not, I never had a thruster to use.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 03:19 PM   #16
Guru
 
siestakey's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota,FL/Thomasville,GA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Steppin Stone IV
Vessel Model: Marine Trader Kelly Trawler 46
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,792
Send a message via Skype™ to siestakey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
I live on a 83', 80 ton boat. I solo more often than with passengers. I'm also 70 years old. I have severe arthritis in my hands. But neither age or arthritis stops me. Most yachtsmen don't take the time to really learn boat handling. They approach it as if driving a car with wheels.

The boat gets into dock position, the lines secure it. In more difficult conditions the use of spring lines help get the boat in position.
I usually dock with 1 spring line from mid bow to a dock cleat past midships. I have the spring fastened and ready to drop on a cleat before approaching the dock. I leave one engine in gear pushing against the spring and set my other lines. Not much different that how I docked ships.
If people would take a day or several days and learn their boat, docking would not be difficult. There are many professional books available that describe the forces affecting boat movement and how to control it.
In the hundreds and maybe thousands of dockings I have done, single and twin, current or slack, windy or not, I never had a thruster to use.
You are so right I have so many friends with many hours experience but will ask me to help them dock. this past winter we spent a couple days with some friends 3 different boats docking on the transient docks getting them to rely on putting the boat into the slip but not using lines to assist.

I like the Paul and Timothy method of teaching and learning
__________________
Alan
Skype roatan63
siestakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 03:48 PM   #17
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: AICW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 19,382
Dockhands at marinas are so used to pulling boats to the dock, its hard to make it look easy because they just want to git'er done.

I try to manuever the boat to them and iften they yell at me to stop, one dockmaster threw me out of the marina when I told him it was my docking, not his.

But yes, no physical effort beyond holding a spring line should be necessary....but so few people can actually put a boat where it belongs, often helpers take it upon themselves to power assist even if they do strain themselves.

And in my experience with singles and no thrusters, you better have more than a dozen favorite tricks to getting side to in a current or wind.... and in/out of slips..... no one method works but for a percentage of moorings.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 03:52 PM   #18
Guru
 
siestakey's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota,FL/Thomasville,GA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Steppin Stone IV
Vessel Model: Marine Trader Kelly Trawler 46
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,792
Send a message via Skype™ to siestakey
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Dockhands at marinas are so used to pulling boats to the dock, its hard to make it look easy because they just want to git'er done.

I try to manuever the boat to them and iften they yell at me to stop, one dockmaster threw me out of the marina when I told him it was my docking, not his.

But yes, no physical effort beyond holding a spring line should be necessary....but so few people can actually put a boat where it belongs, often helpers take it upon themselves to power assist even if they do strain themselves.

And in my experience with singles and no thrusters, you better have more than a dozen favorite tricks to getting side to in a current or wind.... and in/out of slips..... no one method works but for a percentage of moorings.
I need to stay away from the marina with the dockmaster that thought he was the captain of your boat
__________________
Alan
Skype roatan63
siestakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 04:17 PM   #19
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,682
Wifey B: Very good thread. Strength not required. Use of strength very very very strongly discouraged. We give a list of rules to all new guests and make it clear they are not optional. Even for us and experienced hands, you only do what the Captain tells you to do. You don't move from where you are on the boat while docking unless the Captain tells you to. Keeps anyone from moving right into your line of vision. We use walkie/talkies. We also use microphone and speakers and/or megaphones to communicate with dock hands.

Of course, on my Baby boat you're all within reaching distance of each other.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 04:19 PM   #20
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,682
Wifey B: Plus I don't want to mess up my nails.
__________________

BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012