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Old 12-16-2013, 09:45 PM   #41
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I have been thinking of buying a Honda trash pump for just such an event. You could stick the intake in the cabin and pump like h*ll, it would likely not stop the sinking, although it will do about 8000 gals per hour, but might delay it long enough for real barge pumps to arrive. Make a good fire hose too, with the correct hose. The owner's insurance could pay for the pump and the gas!
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:53 PM   #42
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Bought the Honda pump for offshore emergencies when I had a sailboat. Test it at the beginnig of the season, run it dry and stow it. Moves lots of water fast. The Pacific Trawler has very shallow bilges so it'll also come in handy should the need arise. Because of the shallow bilges, I plan on installing dedicated high water alarm with an external noise maker and internet/cell notifications. The previous photos just moved this project to number 1.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:58 PM   #43
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As I walked down the dock, this is was I saw ...

Any update on the cause?
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:01 PM   #44
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Greetings,
Mr. Rick B. Water got inside...
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:41 PM   #45
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Rick, not yet. The salvage crew is supposed to start tomorrow. I'm just guessing but I'm thinking they're going to put flotation bags inside and slowly lift it, pumping water out as it lifts.

If I had to guess on a cause I'd say that a thru-hull hose let go and the bilge pumps couldn't keep up with it.

There's an exhaust vent that comes out the stbd side of the boat right at the stern of our boat. I always thought it was for diesel heat but the owner told me it was his bilge blowers. He leaves it running to keep the battery smell out of the bilge.

I noticed Friday night that it wasn't running so the batteries may have run down and then were dead when the leak started.

The boat was refinished inside and out 2 years ago and the hull is in great shape, so I'd be surprised if a board let go in the hull. We should know by Friday or Saturday when they get it lifted what the cause was.
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:58 PM   #46
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Google Earth is amazing. Took me a while to work it out from the photos, but I found it. Better times for that boat...
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:25 PM   #47
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Quote:
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Rick, not yet. The salvage crew is supposed to start tomorrow. I'm just guessing but........the owner told me it was his bilge blowers. He leaves it running to keep the battery smell out of the bilge. I noticed Friday night that it wasn't running so the batteries may have run down and then were dead when the leak started.
I would have thought leaving bilge blowers on an exercise in futility when unattended, would do little to reduce smells, and I doubt the smells eminate from the batts, so presume you meant the bilges. I would be worried re them either arcing out, being electric motors, and causing a fire, rather than preventing, when left on all that time, but also for sure they are going to run down the batts quite quickly if something interrupted the shore power for any time. This might have been why the bilge pumps failed in the end..? Guess we will find out soon..?
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:00 AM   #48
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Very sad.
I know several cases similar to this, being at port.
It is easy to give advices after a tragedy like this one, but:

1.- How many bilge pumps do you have and how do they activate, sequentially? Do you have a main one and on top an emergency one?
Do you check them putting water with a hose?

2.- When in auto, do you have a buzzer indicating that the pump is working, audible also at the flybridge?, this is important as EVERYTHING goes to the bilge in a boat. it could be petrol, sweet water, raw water, etc, and you need to be aware particularly when running, that, SOMETHING is leaking. Stop and check.
The commented (HELP ME warning) could be connected in parallel to this buzzer.

3.- When not in permanent use, (for instance, weekends use) is very useful to have in parallel, connected to the pump a CYCLE counter, therefore you can know how many times the pump has been activated when you were not on board. It is very good to detect preliminary leakages, before they become wider, that is my installation

4.- Pumps must be connected independent of the main 12V switch panel, as to operate automatically, only protected by a powerful circuit breaker directly to the main battery bank ( to avoid fire in case of heating or blocking).

5.- Shore power is vital for these cases, check frequently that AC input is ok

6.- The cost of all this installation is absolutely minimum vs the potential damage that may be avoided.

Hope it helps
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:06 AM   #49
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Greetings,
Mr. alberto. All good points. Thank you...sort of....NOW I've got some alterations to do.
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:48 AM   #50
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There have been many great suggestions on this informative (keep boat afloat and possibly save lives) thread! I much appreciate them all. Warning signals and pump sequence counts for pump(s) ON when boat is left at dock or while cruising, sleeping or otherwise aboard out and about are very useful; I have moved "Bilge Pump Improvements" to upper elevation in my Ta Do List!

Got to thinking... For at dock with an independent AC line have a REALLY BIG volume pump that can activate if need is ever called for. Of course with bells and whistles to let it be known that a boat needs assistance. This same pump could be run by gen set if required while on the water. Also - For S&G (sort of - lol) there could be a flip up page that automatically activates inside salon window with boat owners picture on it and printed with such as... Seems my boat is sinking - PLEASE call authorities to save my boat - I grant entry aboard to any person or organization who can help save my boat! Phone #'s, text/email... etc on the card!


Maybe bigger than life hologram; ourselves on bow screaming HELP, I'M SINKING!!!

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Old 12-18-2013, 10:33 AM   #51
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Hey - here's one:

"Float Bags" Not too unlike auto air bags - except... they stay inflated. Once hull reaches certain WL level the bags automatically inflate in bilge and other boat areas to accomplish "Float Bag" displace of water ingress trying to fill boat! Bag containers could be placed all over under the floors.

If someone patents and markets this give me a $$$ jolt for concept!

Happy Boating Daze - Art
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:52 AM   #52
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Hey - here's one:

"Float Bags" Not too unlike auto air bags - except... they stay inflated. Once hull reaches certain WL level the bags automatically inflate in bilge and other boat areas to accomplish "Float Bag" displace of water ingress trying to fill boat! Bag containers could be placed all over under the floors.

If someone patents and markets this give me a $$$ jolt for concept!

Happy Boating Daze - Art
You're too late. That already exists. Read it in Pacific Yachting years ago.
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:57 AM   #53
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Trash pump takes up little space in the aft corner of the flybridge, hoses in the lazarette. I have used it to wash stuff off the dock, and to de-water a very full bilge. It doesn't take long to deploy, but when needed, gives great comfort. Honda, with 15 ft 2.5" suction hose, 100ft of fire hose, total cost under $400.00. Peace of mind, priceless.
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:53 PM   #54
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I will send pictures of my cycle counter

Independently of a hole made by a crash, the highest water ingress flow should come from an engine raw water hose cracked.
If you are able to understand how much water intake is flowing, you can estimate your main bilge pump power.

Emergency pump should be double than this.

I use the RULE ones, to me the most reliable ones.

Also try to use electronic level switches, because the do not get trapped, and also begins some seconds after signal ( in order to avoid constant working due to rolling), and stops some seconds later , avoiding line return water when stopping if you do not have anti-return valves after the pump.

Remember always the rule of having under water line, all hoses connections with double ss steel clamps.
ALWAYS
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:04 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
There have been many great suggestions on this informative (keep boat afloat and possibly save lives) thread! I much appreciate them all. Warning signals and pump sequence counts for pump(s) ON when boat is left at dock or while cruising, sleeping or otherwise aboard out and about are very useful; I have moved "Bilge Pump Improvements" to upper elevation in my Ta Do List!

Got to thinking... For at dock with an independent AC line have a REALLY BIG volume pump that can activate if need is ever called for. Of course with bells and whistles to let it be known that a boat needs assistance. This same pump could be run by gen set if required while on the water. Also - For S&G (sort of - lol) there could be a flip up page that automatically activates inside salon window with boat owners picture on it and printed with such as... Seems my boat is sinking - PLEASE call authorities to save my boat - I grant entry aboard to any person or organization who can help save my boat! Phone #'s, text/email... etc on the card!


Maybe bigger than life hologram; ourselves on bow screaming HELP, I'M SINKING!!!

On top of this, what about marina sailors? Do they check these situations?
When you see an unattended boat with a permanent water drain coming out, not necessarily is the air conditioning!! (particularly in Alaska in winter)
I watched this situation in a marina after three days in a boat beside of me, called the guards, and it was a serious damage....
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Old 12-18-2013, 03:34 PM   #56
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High water alarms, crash pumps, cell phone tie ins to a klaxon etc are all well and good. But keeping the hoses in good repair, being anal about addressing ANY water in the bilge, through hulls in good shape, boat watchers if vessel berthed far from home etc trump all the after the fact alarms.

Seven years ago a KK 42 berthed two slips down from us sank one night. The owner had been redoing his grounding wires to the through hulls and inadvertently hooked them up to a hot lead, thus bronze valves met their fate.

My take, nothing beats good preventative maintenance and closing a through hull when it comes to keeping our vessels afloat.

Good subject GFC, too bad it happened but hopefully we can learn from it.
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Old 12-20-2013, 11:33 PM   #57
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GFC,

What is the final word? What was it? Did I miss you saying it?
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Old 12-21-2013, 06:34 AM   #58
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Trash pumps are great emergency gear but most are gasoline.

With ethanol in the fuel the storage life is perhaps a month.

The old metal outboard tanks or Army Jeep metal tanks are airtight and should prevent the ethanol from grabbing water .

Also you local small aircraft field (FBO) will sell gas with NO ethanol , that with Store & Start (or similar) may be useful if ever needed.
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:24 AM   #59
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With ethanol in the fuel the storage life is perhaps a month.



Also you local small aircraft field (FBO) will sell gas with NO ethanol , that with Store & Start (or similar) may be useful if ever needed.

Good point or you can try this site as well...

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:35 AM   #60
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Our assistance towing company just runs our Honda trash (salvage pumps) dry each time as they have a fuel cut off and they start first or second pull every time and this is our fourth year using E-10 fuel. We do go through several tank fulls a year....so fresh gas I'm sure helps.

Running them dry does 2 things...the primary reason we do it is we have found the carbs will sometimes overflow and hydrolock the cylinder with gas....secondarily it keeps the carbs cleaner.

These pumps also live in the bilge of utility boats or on deck covered in a tarp....they look 10 years older for every year we have them.

Worth their weight in gold when you or anyone else is sinking...as a fire hose they can help but for boat fires involving fuels or oils that are on fire...usually only pumping foam will put it out completely.
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