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Old 12-15-2013, 10:49 AM   #21
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I like Steve's (Forkliftt) concept for hooking bilge pump action to horn button. I muse that concept and wonder if hooking to all three of our regular bilge pumps to horn, so that any "unexpected" need for bilge water evacuation becomes immediately noted while aboard or while not aboard. This would have a shut off flip switch to horn so I could manually activate the pumps while aboard if desired without horn sounding but then after I've checked for bilge water hit the to-horn flip switch back on as an alarm system.

Reason I'm thinking this concoction after reading Steve's post is due to these factors:

1. Our Tolly hull/bottom takes on "0" water of its own volition... at rest or on cruise
2. We do have a top off leak in one fresh water tank and if fill hose is left on too long there is at times a few gallons that enter bilge - for which I manually activate pump to remove (I’ll fix that some day!)
3. One time years ago we were cruising along on a sunny blustery day up on flying bridge and then we anchored. Upon anchoring at reduced rpm I heard bilge pump water hitting the sea. When throwing open engine hatches I found considerable water in bilge. Pumps handled that OK. It was raw water pump on starboard engine that had failed considerably, although still getting enough to heat transfer system to keep engine cool. I would have liked to be warned by horn - Good idea Steve!

This is now on my To Do list! - Art

PS: I'm wishing best luck to owners of sunk boat... My heart aches for you.
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Old 12-15-2013, 12:30 PM   #22
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There isn't anything new to add since yesterday. A rep from the EPA showed up and said everything looked good with the spill booms and the diapers we were collecting so he was happy.

Speculation is that a hose from a thru-hull fitting gave out and flooded the boat. There's an exhaust outlet on the stbd side of the boat directly off our stern. I usually hear it running but I talked with the owner this morning and told him I hadn't heard it when we were down there Friday night. I thought it was a heater exhaust and just figured the heater had cycled off. Turns out that exhaust is from a bilge blower that's always left on to keep fresh air down where his house and engine batteries are. If the bilge blower wasn't running that may be because the batteries were dead and that may have kept the bilge pumps from discharging water.

Now it's up to the insurance to take care of the boat.
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:00 PM   #23
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Thanks Art for the kind comments. Slight thread hijack, two things actually. I no longer leave my charger on while at the boat, it's an older unit and just don't trust it enough, so when I first get on the boat, I hit the blower/blowers to confirm the batteries are still up. Afterwards I turn on the charger and hear a slight increase in speed due to the higher voltage. Probably not nearly as accurate as the modern monitoring systems out there but it works. Second issue, it seems the '83 Present 42's don't have near the engine room vents that 85 and later show at midship. I'm convinced that this contributes to engine room "smell" that I always seem to be fighting. Over the years, I tend to run the 12 volt blowers, one from aft head to ER, and other from ER to outside- for a couple of days if we have not been on the boat for a few weeks. It's not as big an issue if we go regularly. HOWEVER, the unit we use, a
Jabsco 35400-0000. Has a service life of about 1200 hours- so I have probably purchased 4 or 5 of these over the years. Attempts at freshening them up have had varied results. Does anyone use a 110 version of these, or possibly another 110 blower that they are happy with? Perhaps a continuous duty motor? Any replies to this might be posted by starting a new thread! Hijack over!
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:07 PM   #24
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...Yeahp, we spend our lives working hard to do many things, amongst them to have something that we really like. And then, one day, we come to a crossroad like this.
Life is not always fair!

My simpathy and best wishes for the owner of the boat!
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:54 PM   #25
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I was in a transient slip once and noticed that the unoccupied boat in the next slip seemed a bit lower in the water than when we arrived. We had admired the boat earlier so I could tell it looked different.
I notified the Dockmaster who came to verify and then left to call the owner. After a couple of sundowners no one had showed up and the boat was obviously taking on water.
I again walked to the dock office and was informed that they could not find the owner and that there was nothing they could do without permission. Coast Guard showed up with a pump but would not board boat because owner not present.
The marina put spill booms around and we all watched as the boat sank. Talk about sad.
I found out later that the engine had been removed that day and the mechanic had failed to plug the exhaust. Not sure how you could miss that but that was the story.
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ranson View Post
I was in a transient slip once and noticed that the unoccupied boat in the next slip seemed a bit lower in the water than when we arrived. We had admired the boat earlier so I could tell it looked different.
I notified the Dockmaster who came to verify and then left to call the owner. After a couple of sundowners no one had showed up and the boat was obviously taking on water.
I again walked to the dock office and was informed that they could not find the owner and that there was nothing they could do without permission. Coast Guard showed up with a pump but would not board boat because owner not present.
The marina put spill booms around and we all watched as the boat sank. Talk about sad.
I found out later that the engine had been removed that day and the mechanic had failed to plug the exhaust. Not sure how you could miss that but that was the story.

Good on you Bill,
We are so afraid of being the Good Samaritan these days in fear of getting our asses sued that our "built-in neighborly help" or "doing the right thing" is limited. The one thing in my home town that I am still thankful for is that neighbors look out for and action what needs to be done to help others. On many occasions at two in the morning, a group of fellows went down to help out a needed fisherman or pleasure boater when things needed to be done. Something to be said for that I tell ya. I got called a little while ago from a passersby out for a daily cruise who called someone to go take care of an issue at my boat. There was no way I could get there to take care of it, but thankful people are still around like that and like you Bill ( and oh ya Hollywood ).
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:01 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ranson View Post
I was in a transient slip once and noticed that the unoccupied boat in the next slip seemed a bit lower in the water than when we arrived. We had admired the boat earlier so I could tell it looked different.
I notified the Dockmaster who came to verify and then left to call the owner. After a couple of sundowners no one had showed up and the boat was obviously taking on water.
I again walked to the dock office and was informed that they could not find the owner and that there was nothing they could do without permission. Coast Guard showed up with a pump but would not board boat because owner not present.
The marina put spill booms around and we all watched as the boat sank. Talk about sad.
I found out later that the engine had been removed that day and the mechanic had failed to plug the exhaust. Not sure how you could miss that but that was the story.
I know this is what has been shoved down our throats due to our legal system. But... I would rather be sued for trying to do the right thing than to have to live with my guilt for not.

Besides a good lawyer could probably sue someone who had the ability to do something and chose not to... again our P.O.S. legal system.

I have stepped aboard a number of times to help a vessel in dire straits and to this point have not been sued... I am a true believer in Karma

HOLLYWOOD
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:02 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Bill Ranson View Post
I was in a transient slip once and noticed that the unoccupied boat in the next slip seemed a bit lower in the water than when we arrived. We had admired the boat earlier so I could tell it looked different.
I notified the Dockmaster who came to verify and then left to call the owner. After a couple of sundowners no one had showed up and the boat was obviously taking on water.
I again walked to the dock office and was informed that they could not find the owner and that there was nothing they could do without permission. Coast Guard showed up with a pump but would not board boat because owner not present.
The marina put spill booms around and we all watched as the boat sank. Talk about sad.
I found out later that the engine had been removed that day and the mechanic had failed to plug the exhaust. Not sure how you could miss that but that was the story.
Here's an idea!

Next time call the cops and tell them you think you saw strangers selling drugs off the boat and it seemed there were drugs that had been in the window! Then when they show tell them you think those strangers may have screwed around on the boat because it seems to be taking on water! I hope the cops could then get the CG aboard for a needed, continued pump out!

Geezzz - Have we become so litigious that no one can even board a sinking boat to save it from sinking – does that include the CG too?!?! That is unbelievable and somehow very sick !
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:41 AM   #29
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Geezzz - Have we become so litigious that no one can even board a sinking boat to save it from sinking does that include the CG too?!?! That is unbelievable and somehow very sick !
Art, when you are right, you are RIGHT..!
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:40 AM   #30
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Actually...if the boat is floating but taking on water.....YOU CAN do something about it...if it's already sunk is when salvage become questionable.

YOU CAN be sued if you are IN THE POSITION TO HELP AND DON"T ...usually that would be an on scene salvor, USCG or equivalent, or even possibly the marina if they had equipment or have done it in the past.

We do it all the time under those guidelines....
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:38 AM   #31
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The one thing in my home town that I am still thankful for is that neighbors look out for and action what needs to be done to help others.
Agreed Elwin,
If there's problem with a boat in my town, by the time the owner gets the news the locals will have things well in hand in fact they will most likely have done any needed repairs!!
I suppose it's different in a big marina where I hear, you can't leave a shore power lead out overnight or it will disappear, having said that, anyone who was good enough to "gemmie" the lock off of my cabin door in order to gain access to the bilges and save my boat from sinking, would become a friend for life, certainly not sued for damages.
The owner must be devastated, I really feel for him.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:24 AM   #32
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I know this is what has been shoved down our throats due to our legal system. But... I would rather be sued for trying to do the right thing than to have to live with my guilt for not. I am a true believer in Karma HOLLYWOOD
Besides, every time I get involved in a boat listing from water intrusion, I think I ALWAYS hear a tiny voice inside the boat calling for help. I couldn't take a chance that it might not be true.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:45 AM   #33
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Besides, every time I get involved in a boat listing from water intrusion, I think I ALWAYS hear a tiny voice inside the boat calling for help. I couldn't take a chance that it might not be true.
Good one Larry! Little bi o' humor in this sad thread.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:33 AM   #34
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I could not sleep at night if I had walked away or not have taken direct action to not only try to save the vessel but also prevent the heart break to the family who owned the vessel. It still always come back to the golden rule. Put your self in their shoes and then act correctly. Why are so many people so afraid of lawyers and their B.S. How can you look in the mirror. Better to die with fellow warriors then live wrapped in a blanket with the squaws. Truly, Willaim Ronald Turnow
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:55 AM   #35
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This started about midnight when I first noticed problem and by the time the Dockmaster and I got back to the boat she had water in the cockpit. It would have been impossible to find the leak in the engine room. I did manage to turn the power breaker off since there was a live wire going to the boat. Glad no one decided to board before. CG arrived about 15 minutes later but absolutely refused to do anything.
Lots of lessons to be learned here starting with having a second contact in case you can't be reached.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:00 AM   #36
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Forgot to mention that the marina employee/Dockmaster lived on the premises. I initially thought because of this "stroke of luck" things would turn out OK.
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:24 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Bill Ranson View Post
I was in a transient slip once and noticed that the unoccupied boat in the next slip seemed a bit lower in the water than when we arrived. We had admired the boat earlier so I could tell it looked different.
I notified the Dockmaster who came to verify and then left to call the owner. After a couple of sundowners no one had showed up and the boat was obviously taking on water.
I again walked to the dock office and was informed that they could not find the owner and that there was nothing they could do without permission. Coast Guard showed up with a pump but would not board boat because owner not present.
The marina put spill booms around and we all watched as the boat sank. Talk about sad.
I found out later that the engine had been removed that day and the mechanic had failed to plug the exhaust. Not sure how you could miss that but that was the story.
If you stepped onto the boat and pumped it out, you could probably claim salvage rights to the boat.
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:13 PM   #38
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Very heartbreaking scene. I can't even imagine how the owner feels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
I have two high bilge water switches.

Either one goes off and less than 10 seconds later I get a text and a e-mail on my Iphone, my Ipad, my home computer, and my office computer.

Then I get the same text and e-mail every minute until the alarm goes away.
In similar fashion, when choosing an alarm system I picked the one that makes a phone call instead of text/email. My idea was that it's a lot easier to miss a text and even easier with emails. If my boat needs attention I want immediate phone call. The siren with flashing strobe goes off on the boat as well.

Interestingly enough these additional security features also help while underway. When I installed the system I mounted the sensor slightly on the low side. So, when I was in rough seas the collected rain water in the bilge splashed on to the sensor triggering the alarm. I was close enough to shore the the phone call stating that it was the bilge zone. Considering the fact that boat's high water pump didn't go off I logically suspected that it's due to the splash. ER cameras didn't show any extra water, so when I got down below I confirmed the suspected cause. Even though we can consider this as a false alarm, but the good thing is that it never hearts having extra protection, especially with ability to notify you while you're remote.
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:59 PM   #39
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If you stepped onto the boat and pumped it out, you could probably claim salvage rights to the boat.
Kinda kills the whole Karma thing don't you think?
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Old 12-16-2013, 06:21 PM   #40
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Besides, every time I get involved in a boat listing from water intrusion, I think I ALWAYS hear a tiny voice inside the boat calling for help. I couldn't take a chance that it might not be true.
I wondered if a voice instead of horn could be wired into automatic pumps (along with flashing light) yelling out "HELP ME - I'm sinking"

more ideas:

A break glass in case of sinking box near the boarding area of vessel with a strobing light inside (same circuit as light above) to draw attention to it.
Hit button for generator driven pump or at least kick arse electrical one.

The phone alert setup that has been mentioned being a subscriptions service and it going to the provider who can then organise a fast response.

Owners who have these systems in place then getting a reduction in insurance premiums.

Of course these would only really be of use to those who park in a marina and due to numbers would probably only be viable in the US.
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