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Old 07-12-2014, 03:15 PM   #161
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According to the Roddan weight study Baden was to carry 32,450 pounds of fuel in four tanks. Her full load displacement was supposed to be 130 long tons, about 291,200 pounds. So fuel is about 10% of total weight.

Tanks full or empty would change vanishing stability angle by a few degrees one way or the other.

Thanks for asking that question as it sent me back to looking at the Roddan report which turned up a number of rather glaring mistakes. I almost don't believe these were let stand......

In both weight summery pages some of the empty tanks and their contents are assigned obviously incorrect vertical centers. The main fuel tank (1800 pounds) and it's contents (18000 pounds) are listed a few inches above baseline, lower than the keel shoe! The dinghy, crane, and "misc" hardware are given no vertical arm at all. The grey water tank is listed as 53.5' above the keel! Look...Up in the sky....a grey water tank.....

Mistakes create uncertainty.....perhaps the whole thing is a red herring.
Weirder and weirder. I guess between the flying grey water tank, the massless crane and tender and the fuel tank apparently being bolted onto the keel we have no clue whether this vessel will float upright. I still don't understand how a project of this size with that many people involved gets this screwed up...
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Old 07-12-2014, 04:39 PM   #162
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I still don't understand how a project of this size with that many people involved gets this screwed up...
Putting trust in the wrong people. Lack of oversight. Failure as buyer to follow all the business principles you've used for years to gain your success. Emotions over mind.
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Old 07-12-2014, 07:34 PM   #163
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I still don't understand how a project of this size with that many people involved gets this screwed up...
Sadly it's an old story in this business. And one that seems to get repeated again and again. There have been books written about the build sagas of some larger yachts.

Not to mention the law suits over boats that did not meet their design criteria at launch.

And more then one owner has had to buy the build yard just to get his boat finished.
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Old 08-09-2015, 09:10 PM   #164
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It is worth noting that the NTSB report on the accident came out in July 2015. It is interesting reading. Skip to page 15 for the probable cause of the accident.

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/A...ts/MAB1514.pdf
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Old 08-09-2015, 09:40 PM   #165
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Thanks for posting. Page 15 tells the story. Sounds like a colossal screw up from the beginning to end. Our company has been asked many times to come in and straighten out screwed up construction projects. We have refused because we would have to warrant someone's work. There is no way you can uncover all they did.
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Old 08-09-2015, 10:18 PM   #166
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Wow!!

What is they say, there is never just one cause for a catastrophic failure, it's always a chain of events.

At least this one appears to have landed right at the feet of New Worlds project management/owner from improper ballasting before launch to errors in the launch itself. Amazing!!

Good read. . . . thanks for posting the report.
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Old 08-09-2015, 10:20 PM   #167
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The day I drove by that boat outside of the production building I thought to myself "Man that sure looks like a top heavy boat"! There simply was not enough boat under water for so much above the water line.
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Old 08-09-2015, 11:15 PM   #168
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The entirety of the document reflects the unstable situation at New World during that time. No Engineer on staff. Temporary manager. Careless recording of weights. Changes in project management. Note that the project manager for the owner was terminated, by his account when he raised issues, and management of the project taken over by the brokerage.

I also found it interesting that the USCG wasn't able to weigh the vessel afterwards due to New World being in receivership.
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Old 08-10-2015, 02:48 AM   #169
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Thanks for posting the report that was a very interesting read
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Old 08-10-2015, 03:21 AM   #170
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Yep-that boat was a cock-up from the time they decided to extend the mold until it tipped over. An amazing series of mistakes, errors, bad judgements, lousy management, bad ownership (both boat and NM!). Knowing all that, it would have been truly amazing if the damned thing did not sink!
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Old 08-10-2015, 03:31 AM   #171
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Better it happened at launch than after delivery.
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Old 08-10-2015, 02:59 PM   #172
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I also found it interesting that the USCG wasn't able to weigh the vessel afterwards due to New World being in receivership.
I found that interesting and not understandable. What does the receivership have to do with an accident investigation? Do they mean that because New World was out of business there was nobody to perform the weigh in? Surely the insurance companies or the Feds could pay for the test. Seems like if the NTSB is going to do a report they could weigh the danged boat...

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Old 08-10-2015, 04:48 PM   #173
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I'd guess if it was critical to the investigation they would have, but it seems they got to the bottom of what happened without needing it.
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Old 08-10-2015, 04:50 PM   #174
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I found that interesting and not understandable. What does the receivership have to do with an accident investigation? Do they mean that because New World was out of business there was nobody to perform the weigh in? Surely the insurance companies or the Feds could pay for the test. Seems like if the NTSB is going to do a report they could weigh the danged boat...

Later,
Dan
The Boat was inaccessible and under the control of the court and ultimately the receivership. They had no way then to get it weighed. No equipment. It was sitting locked up back in New World's yard. Very complicated situation and I don't know where things ended up. But New World didn't own the land or building or the Northern name. They didn't own some of the equipment and most of the rest was financed. The day I saw they were moving it back to their facility, I figured access could become a problem.

NTSB didn't have the authority to break in to the property and move the boat to scales.
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Old 08-10-2015, 05:37 PM   #175
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Would think it could have been weighed where it sat or a court order would have been easy enough if the NTSB pressed for it.

Must not have been important enough to jump through the hoops.
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Old 08-10-2015, 08:00 PM   #176
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Exclamation

You're probably correct, the boat was moved into New Worlds Building and was under lock and key.

Since there was no loss of life, the NTSB likely concluded the chain of events were relatively clear, it was not worth more of their time and expense. Obtaining a court order and bring in load cells to determine the post accident overall weight most likely wouldn't have changed the facts or findings.
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Old 08-10-2015, 08:20 PM   #177
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Ballast has shifted and boat interior is full of all sorts of sogginess. Fuel tanks partially full of water, too. I don't think merely weighing for the investigation would be worth the expense necessary.

The investigators could tell what the stability situation was by the behavior at launch.

And enough errors were found to explain it.
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Old 08-10-2015, 08:48 PM   #178
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Ballast has shifted and boat interior is full of all sorts of sogginess. Fuel tanks partially full of water, too. I don't think merely weighing for the investigation would be worth the expense necessary.
Well they seemed to have a very precise set of measurements in March before the May launch - adjusting for any added ballast prior to launch should get them pretty close to launch conditions, don't you think?
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