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Old 06-03-2014, 03:21 PM   #41
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Definitely a lot of hands out. The thing is we don't know who engaged the salvage company, Coast Guard or Insurer or, possibly but unlikely, builder.
Definitely not the USCG unless it looked as if an environmental issue was at or near at hand....and from the pictures...not really enough for the USCG to dedicate funding.

it's usually the owner...so Northern I would guess if it was still not sold.

but it's all just speculation who actually contracted the salvor unless someone has better info.
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Old 06-03-2014, 03:24 PM   #42
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Roddan Engineering estimates a full load displacement of 291,000 pounds, and specifies 58,000 pounds of ballast, almost 20% of full load weight! This (IMO) is nuts from the get-go. Surely there is a more sensible way to cross an ocean?

But viewing the doctored video of the actual launch is dismaying to say the least..
When I saw the video last week, the boat never appeared to be afloat before it tried to turn turtle.

But, I saw the video that was posted on cruiser forum by the company and it was obviously edited.

I can't see the company surviving this fiasco and it sounds like, maybe they shouldn't.
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Old 06-03-2014, 03:38 PM   #43
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Definitely not the USCG unless it looked as if an environmental issue was at or near at hand....and from the pictures...not really enough for the USCG to dedicate funding.

it's usually the owner...so Northern I would guess if it was still not sold.

but it's all just speculation who actually contracted the salvor unless someone has better info.
Actually Coast Guard was there first, was concerned about environmental issues. The concern was certainly not huge considering there was only 120 gallons of fuel aboard. But whether them, insurance, or Northern, don't know for sure.
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Old 06-03-2014, 03:47 PM   #44
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When I saw the video last week, the boat never appeared to be afloat before it tried to turn turtle.

But, I saw the video that was posted on cruiser forum by the company and it was obviously edited.

I can't see the company surviving this fiasco and it sounds like, maybe they shouldn't.
But will there be another reincarnation like last time? I see bankruptcy and liquidation again as probable. I don't think Andy would try to buy assets and restart it but perhaps Bud would. I think right now they could still be trying to sell the company but at less than they were seeking. There just aren't a lot of buyers out there interested in small boat builders. There have been circumstances in the past where a boat purchaser was the largest creditor and ended up owning the company, but I don't see that in this situation. Boat buyer was already planning to sell the boat so don't see him wanting involvement.

Yes, the video I think you're referring to was by the person Northern has used in the past and had there to video their huge launch. Obviously, that didn't work as expected. I don't know if he decided on his own not to show it all or if they restricted what he showed publicly.
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Old 06-04-2014, 01:24 PM   #45
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Now as to the possibility of the reincarnation I mentioned above. Bud Lemieux has gone to the press and told them to stop using the Northern Marine name and use New World Yacht Builders. Indicates another entity owns the assets and leases them to New World. Bud has now make the conflict, which I knew existed but due to sources didn't mention, between he and Andy public. There's more to come. But not impossible to see Bud end up with the equipment and molds and the name Northern Marine across at his new property.

Buds release:

Northern Marine founder issues statement to Trade Only | Trade Only Today

And an update that now shows the NTSB taking over the investigation. Rest assured the insurer is continuing their own investigation.

Yacht capsizing investigation continues, will take months - goanacortes: News

While the boat is referred to as a $10 million yacht, it was for sell for $9.2. Don't know what the initial buyer paid.

The information from Bud above also indicates that any buyers or vendors have even less to go after as New World, if Bud is to be believed, not only doesn't own the building and land, but doesn't own the assets such as the equipment and perhaps tooling or molds, although they didn't have molds in a traditional sense. Perhaps only leasing the name as well. But sounds like now an entity with a lot of debt and very few assets.

So, an ugly situation turns uglier and don't be surprised at more. To my knowledge Andy has still not spoken publicly since the incident.
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Old 07-06-2014, 04:40 PM   #46
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Remarkable set of photos from the launch and sinking. This link is in the middle of them. Navigate from there.



Northern 90....
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:09 PM   #47
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I said it on the day she sank and now with the pictures, I'll say it again, somebody was running a stern thruster in a direction that would hasten to roll her.
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:16 PM   #48
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I just can't see how a stern thruster (looks to me it was running) could turtle a properly ballasted ship, even one that was still on it's trailer.
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:18 PM   #49
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And no, picture #61 does not show a transom engine room door open, as previously suggested.
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:17 PM   #50
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I saw bubbles (disturbed water) next to the boat in one picture but could not determine where they were coming from...I spent a millisecond thinking what if it were the tires on the transporter that got repairered after the fact when no one was looking....

but.... also was the statement about engine room down flooding so the bubbles could be related to that.
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:40 PM   #51
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And no, picture #61 does not show a transom engine room door open, as previously suggested.
No, the transom door was not open, and the company statement that the trailer wheel fell into a hole off the ramp, and the port side fin also fell into the same hole, causing the boat to roll over as if on the hard is also untrue, as I can see zero damage to the port side fin that allegedly was supposed to have taken the entire weight of the vessel.

This boat was simply going to be happiest upside down, and were the water deeper where she was launched, that is how she would have floated. If not for long.
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:59 PM   #52
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I saw bubbles (disturbed water) next to the boat in one picture but could not determine where they were coming from
I wondered the same thing and with the dark antifouling paint color it is difficult to see what's there on the hull. But there is one picture when it's out of water where it looks like that may be the engine exhaust outlet. The rear thruster appears to be quite a bit further forward on the keel.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:06 PM   #53
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I wondered the same thing and with the dark antifouling paint color it is difficult to see what's there on the hull. But there is one picture when it's out of water where it looks like that may be the engine exhaust outlet. The rear thruster appears to be quite a bit further forward on the keel.
I'll wait for an actual investigation document..not a bunch of speculation and interpretation of "reported" "truths".....

Not that it might be correct..but usually the 'findings of fact" section give you leads where to focus on what the final decision is.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:07 PM   #54
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It was mentioned earlier by Delphin that the boat had only 30,000 lbs of ballast when launched. There's a 81' NM listed for sale in Seattle and it has 54,000 lbs of ballast. So if Delphin is correct then it seems a safe bet that it was under ballasted and destined to flip on launch.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:23 PM   #55
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It was mentioned earlier by Delphin that the boat had only 30,000 lbs of ballast when launched. There's a 81' NM listed for sale in Seattle and it has 54,000 lbs of ballast. So if Delphin is correct then it seems a safe bet that it was under ballasted and destined to flip on launch.
I assume you have full knowledge of the design stability issues at hand and know that full ballast (which is a disaster for transport) is required to float upright in a mill pond?
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:29 PM   #56
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It was mentioned earlier by Delphin that the boat had only 30,000 lbs of ballast when launched.
It's sad seeing that beautiful boat sitting there in the empty lot everytime I drive down R ave!! Invariably it won't be one cause. . . the investigation will find a number of elements and maybe some contributory negligence that together caused the accident.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:31 PM   #57
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I assume you have full knowledge of the design stability issues at hand and know that full ballast (which is a disaster for transport) is required to float upright in a mill pond?
Nope, you're right, I don't know jack about that stuff and even less of this incident. But I'm willing to bet (assuming Delphin is correct) that once the investigation is completed, that will be the outcome. Just my opinion.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:50 PM   #58
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That boat could make somebody a nice home if they dug a hole and buried it to the waterline and mounted it somewhere with a nice view. It wouldn't be the first "interesting" home in Annacortes. Solve that stability question for once and all.
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Old 07-06-2014, 08:06 PM   #59
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I assume you have full knowledge of the design stability issues at hand and know that full ballast (which is a disaster for transport) is required to float upright in a mill pond?
You can look that up yourself in the report from the engineer hired to do a stability study. With machinery and ballast, she carried around 30,000# of fixed ballast that the study showed needed to be increased by more than double, or by around 17 LT. What ballast there was at launch was apparently heavy on the port side, since she rolled in that direction not from any extreme sudden heeling movement brought on by the launch but from around 15% from the point she appears to have floated free, continuing to roll to the position she wanted to assume, which was upside down. She was only prevented from reaching that point of stability when she rolled into the breakwater.

New World has been criticized for its practice of launching its vessels like you were floating a 26' Trophy. It has worked up to this point, but does require adding ballast afterwards. In this case, that was a fatal mistake since the boat was clearly not ballasted to withstand floating upright in water, something which many professional mariners (perhaps even you) consider a deficiency.
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Old 07-06-2014, 08:08 PM   #60
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That boat could make somebody a nice home if they dug a hole and buried it to the waterline and mounted it somewhere with a nice view. It wouldn't be the first "interesting" home in Annacortes. Solve that stability question for once and all.
Actually, if they add 38,000# of lead in the areas indicated she needed it by the engineer, you'd have an actual boat. I haven't seen any activity on the vessel at all, so I assume her interior is unsalveagable, although I heard they had pickled the engines.
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