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Old 05-10-2015, 06:15 PM   #61
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[QUOTE=Scary;331991]If I'm not mistaken the newer KK North Sea 48 has only a side deck at the salon on the starboard side/QUOTE]


Yes, they refer to those as "wide bodies". They are more spacious. You're right, we have poles with paravanes and there'd be quite difficult to deploy without the side decks, but I believe there are work a rounds.

If our boat didn't have side decks, we'd figure it out. But it would be damned difficult to single hand.


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Old 05-10-2015, 06:25 PM   #62
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I pretty much have found....every boat has some workarounds....

Different ones for different people...and this thread is just one more example...
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:47 PM   #63
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The conversation in this thread has been about raised side decks - with valuable storage below - compared to wider accommodations above waist height (and a corresponding loss of storage). But that's leaving out what might be the most attractive configuration - the substantially increased value of the side deck when it's covered.

Most of my boating has been in the PNW where rain is an issue more than tropical sun, but the same principle applies - keeping the elements off of the deck and accommodations.

If you are working the side deck - going through the locks, hand-lining a small boat, helping someone raft up, docking in an unfamiliar slip / fuel dock / whatever - and it's raining (or worse, snowing!) then there is truly no substitute to being able to stand under cover. And to having your side entrances under cover.

And even in the relatively mild summers in the PNW I have seen the advantage of keeping direct sun off of the cabin sides (particularly the glass areas).

IMHO once your vessel reaches a certain size (40' LOA?) then the value of increased width in the saloon starts to diminish - unless you typically carry so many guests that they (or you) feel crowded.
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Old 05-10-2015, 09:27 PM   #64
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refugio,
We lived in SE Alaska for 8 years, didn't have covered side decks and didn't even have a covered after deck. When we went north it was high on the to-do list but just never seemed important enough to move on the issue. And of course there were downsides to the addition of such covers. Just because something looks like it may be a good thing dosn't mean one should jump up and employ it. I've seen pics of the Mainship in question (I'm quite sure) and consider it top heavy. My opinion dosn't make it so .. but just say'in.

caltexflanc,
Re your post 55 I am trying to compare an average run of the mill boat acceptable to most to a standout extraordinary product that well known for it's fine construction and excellent design. They are not in the same class to compare. But the Mainship may indeed be a good average boat. And a good average boat gives good average service for many years.
I think I saw a Mainship 34 yesterday. It was definitely wide and had an oddly designed fore cabin and upper bow. Kinda looked a little houseboat like to me.
As to my top heavy coment earlier the top hamper may be justified as the beam may support it.
If so then another performance factor enters the picture and that is a possible high level of drag in the hump speed range. Wide boats tend to run at high angles of attack at speeds just above the mathematical hull speed and below planing speed.
The NT on the other hand is narrower than most boats and therefore runs more efficient than most at the above mentioned speeds.

Looking to possibly purchase one of these two boats dosn't make much sense. It would be a bit like comparing an SUV to a sedan. If one was suitable to for the buyer the other would be very unlikely to be.
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Old 05-10-2015, 11:52 PM   #65
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Looking to possibly purchase one of these two boats dosn't make much sense. It would be a bit like comparing an SUV to a sedan. If one was suitable to for the buyer the other would be very unlikely to be.
See Eric, You do agree with me!!!
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Old 05-11-2015, 12:27 AM   #66
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refugio,
We lived in SE Alaska for 8 years, didn't have covered side decks and didn't even have a covered after deck. When we went north it was high on the to-do list but just never seemed important enough to move on the issue. And of course there were downsides to the addition of such covers.
I lived aboard in Juneau 30 years ago - can't imagine not having my covered aft deck to take wet gear off to keep it out of the boat.

I give up - what could be a negative aspect to having covered side decks? You keep the boat cleaner, keep the precipitation away from windows, decks, and the troublesome joint between them, have more boat deck space, have a handy overhead for fishing poles, hooks and gaffs, and lighting. And you protect your crew. Where's the downside?
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Old 05-11-2015, 09:11 AM   #67
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Eric -Thanks for a bit of honesty. Keep it up. Oh by the way, my covered side decks are a good working platform from which to clean the fly bridge windows.

Scary and Kevin, you are right - an NT 32 is not as big as a Bayliner 4788 or Hatteras LRC.


And for those fine vessel owners who see the sun rising and falling over their KK logos, other brands do indeed have asymmetrical side deck designs.
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Old 05-11-2015, 09:53 AM   #68
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I give up - what could be a negative aspect to having covered side decks? You keep the boat cleaner, keep the precipitation away from windows, decks, and the troublesome joint between them, have more boat deck space, have a handy overhead for fishing poles, hooks and gaffs, and lighting. And you protect your crew. Where's the downside?
I would love side decks. Nothing negative about them at all!

I would not trade them for the extra feet of salon width though, and thats the real issue. Boats are choices, this for that.

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Scary and Kevin, you are right - an NT 32 is not as big as a Bayliner 4788 or Hatteras LRC.
Of course not, but we are not comparing a 32' boat with a 47' boat. At this point we are considering whether the space lost in the salon to side decks something we prefer.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:49 AM   #69
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We're use to side decks. Could we function without them however? Of course. In fact we do. Our sport boat technically has what it calls decks but we never try to actually get on them and stand on them.

We actually use our side decks more than most as we go to the bow a lot. It's an area used greatly on our boat. But if we didn't have them then walking through wouldn't be the end of the world. In docking and tying, we use the engines and thrusters and do very little manually until we're perfectly in place. However, with two people or more it's easy to have one fore and one aft. And with one person, I don't really think they should be running from the helm down the side to the stern. They need to remain close to the side door from the helm. We prefer side decks but that's just personal preference. No strong argument I'd make one way or the other.

And, yes, our side deck is covered. I hadn't really thought about it and had assumed all were. Now I have to look more at others. It just seems logical it would be so you could use the side in rain and also as protection for the boat.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:53 AM   #70
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refugio wrote;
"I give up - what could be a negative aspect to having covered side decks?"
Just the expense, windage, weight and invitation to put even more weight up high on the boat. Mostly weight and that's a problem w most things one adds to a boat. But for a livaboard it dosn't make much difference. You talk a strong case for then but I don't see them on your boat. That boat of yours would have fit in nicely at the Willard gathering last weekend. And re your "case" there are definite advantages .. several that you point out. Everything on a boat has it's advantages and disadvantages.
We live in a culture of mass mass produced products and lawyers to keep things in check so we're very used to thinking of weight as a bad thing. Like everything else weight has got to pay for itself on the benefits/liability scale and not cause safety issues that aren't acceptable and strike a good balance. And if your'e living aboard in Juneau covered side decks would be a plus BUT in that case the wide body boat would be FAR more desirable than covered area that could have been "house". I do relate to Juneau as I was born there and lived there numerous times.

Speaking of side deck covers Peter B has very lightweight cleverly designed side deck covers as I recall.

Kevin,
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Old 05-11-2015, 12:30 PM   #71
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I give up - what could be a negative aspect to having covered side decks? You keep the boat cleaner, keep the precipitation away from windows, decks, and the troublesome joint between them, have more boat deck space, have a handy overhead for fishing poles, hooks and gaffs, and lighting. And you protect your crew. Where's the downside?
Couldn't agree more! Wish I had them......
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Old 05-11-2015, 03:28 PM   #72
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And for those fine vessel owners who see the sun rising and falling over their KK logos, other brands do indeed have asymmetrical side deck designs.

Hey! I resemble that remark!


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Old 05-11-2015, 04:16 PM   #73
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Since this has turned to covered side decks . I would like mine to be covered just past the front of wheelhouse with maybe some canvas .
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:35 PM   #74
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Hey! I resemble that remark!


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Me too - my KK54 has a single covered side deck on the starboard side. So far I have found it to be a fine compromise. I've already had boats raft to me and it made line handling a breeze. If I ever had to dock on the port side only I guess I'd miss having one on that side. The saloon is plenty wide with this arrangement

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Old 05-11-2015, 04:48 PM   #75
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Me too - my KK54 has a single covered side deck on the starboard side. So far I have found it to be a fine compromise. I've already had boats raft to me and it made line handling a breeze. If I ever had to dock on the port side only I guess I'd miss having one on that side. The saloon is plenty wide with this arrangement

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Actually you guys with one side deck might have the best of booth worlds!
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:59 PM   #76
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Actually you guys with one side deck might have the best of booth worlds!

We do!
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Old 05-12-2015, 11:23 AM   #77
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Just the expense, windage, weight and invitation to put even more weight up high on the boat. Mostly weight and that's a problem w most things one adds to a boat. But for a livaboard it dosn't make much difference.
Well, the expense is a trade-off - longer-lived decks (particularly if they're teak), less maintenance on the house, etc - but the added windage is negligible. OK, a bit of weight up high and outside might affect rolling a bit.

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You talk a strong case for then but I don't see them on your boat. That boat of yours would have fit in nicely at the Willard gathering last weekend...
Indeed I do not have covered side decks. In fact, in my avatar photo I didn't even have rails (added them a couple of years ago). I would LOVE to cover them as well, but my side decks are raised so the cover would be about 18" above the saloon cabin top. I have thought about adding canvas awnings over the side decks from the mid-point on the boat deck railing (also added a couple of years ago), but that would be a pretty mediocre solution. Attached is a more recent picture. BTW, I moor in freshwater under cover so the year-around protection is somewhat less important (to me).

A permanent structure covering the side decks also enables a more substantial rail / bullwark that can be vertically tied into the overhead. I understand Kevin's desire to have a wide saloon, but (for me) there is nothing more luxurious than protected side decks (from a Fleming 65):


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And if your'e living aboard in Juneau covered side decks would be a plus BUT in that case the wide body boat would be FAR more desirable than covered area that could have been "house". I do relate to Juneau as I was born there and lived there numerous times.
Well, go back to your invitation" to use this extra space - that would be particularly useful if you lived aboard!
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Old 05-12-2015, 01:28 PM   #78
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refugio,
I like your side decks. And the boat!

"Well, go back to your invitation" to use this extra space - that would be particularly useful if you lived aboard!"

Certainly don't live aboard .. this may have been from someone else.

Glad to see your pics.
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Old 05-12-2015, 04:47 PM   #79
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Most boats will be adequate for ICW and some coastal cruising. The condition of the boat is more important than the brand. If you have to have a NT then so be it but if you just want to go cruising and enjoy it make a list of the features you must have then look at all boats that have those features. The results may surprise you.
Interior space and aft cabin( to avoid noisy forward berth) became very important to us as we looked and came up with our list.


Advertising words like tug, trawler, passagmaker etc are a big money attractor but don't add to boatability. I look at the GB and NTs and wonder about the lack of bow flare. I also don't like trunk cabins but that's just my opinion.


Look at 50 boats before you buy. Your objective should be to never get on a similar sized boat and say you wish that you had seen it before you bought your boat.
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Old 05-12-2015, 05:30 PM   #80
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Your objective should be to never get on a similar sized boat and say you wish that you had seen it before you bought your boat.
A great objective. We did a very thorough evaluation before buying. We looked, we analyzed and compared, and we chartered. I'd never thought of that objective, but we did accomplish it. Someone may bring something new to the market that makes us wish, but we covered the existing market thoroughly.
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