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Old 08-24-2016, 11:49 AM   #61
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The Spot Tracker seems to have lost its spots. Ok so heading for dBay going behind the wall to anchor. There is a narrow marked opening. For some reason, missed the opening. FWIW, they are not the first. I hope they were uninjured.
39 28.79N 075 34.46W

Just googling for Reedy Island Dyke will show that boats hit the dyke and sink on a pretty regular basis, including local rescue boats.
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Old 08-24-2016, 12:56 PM   #62
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Lessons learned:

- you can't judge the distance of lights at night. Not even close.
Learned that lesson as well in the middle of the Atlantic on the way to Bermuda on a 31' sailboat. Almost got run over by a cruise ship in the middle of the night, despite monitoring on radar, and Radio communications between us.
Night + lights = a perspective challenge
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Old 08-24-2016, 01:48 PM   #63
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Learned that lesson as well in the middle of the Atlantic on the way to Bermuda on a 31' sailboat. Almost got run over by a cruise ship in the middle of the night, despite monitoring on radar, and Radio communications between us.
Night + lights = a perspective challenge
On a fairly flat open sea it can be difficult to visually judge distances even in the day time.

I ran across this issue years ago on the road. I grew up in NC and until 4 years ago had only lived there. In NC we have curves and hills. That gives perspective. You see a car that just came over the top of the hill and you recognize it's fairly close or one that rounded the curve. Generally if you see an approaching car, it's not safe to pass the one in front of you. Now, my first time ever driving in the Delta of Mississippi. No hills. Biggest hill in some of those areas is a speed bump in a shopping center. Long straight roads. I'd see a car approaching and my immediate reaction was not to pass the car in front of me, or the tractor as more often the case. Then the approaching car kept approaching and kept approaching and finally two or three minutes later got there. I realized soon that those cars were often 2 to 3 miles away when I saw them. Well, in NC you don't see cars from 2 or 3 miles.

Judging distances of lights at night is just something most of us have very little experience with and aren't good at. To some commercial captains, I'm sure it's second nature. Not to me.
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Old 08-24-2016, 02:08 PM   #64
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Practice and verification through AIS, RADAR, chartplotter, etc does sharpen those skills.

I have been doing it most of my adult life and people are amazed at my interpretation of distances and use of peripheral vision skills. Even night vision is enhanced by search skills over plain old retina rods and cones explanation.

Often my "seeing" things long before others is because I have experience in extrapolating the shadowing or loss of light from distant light sources that places objects in a field my field of view that are yet unseen.

People who have done this kind of operations at night are probably familiar with the basics...it only gets you stares of disbelief from others not a quainted with it....
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Old 08-24-2016, 03:29 PM   #65
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Practice and verification through AIS, RADAR, chartplotter, etc does sharpen those skills.

I have been doing it most of my adult life and people are amazed at my interpretation of distances and use of peripheral vision skills. Even night vision is enhanced by search skills over plain old retina rods and cones explanation.

Often my "seeing" things long before others is because I have experience in extrapolating the shadowing or loss of light from distant light sources that places objects in a field my field of view that are yet unseen.

People who have done this kind of operations at night are probably familiar with the basics...it only gets you stares of disbelief from others not a quainted with it....
No doubt practice hones these skills. The challenge for us recreational boaters, even those who are out a lot, is that it's still way less time than someone doing it all day every day.
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Old 08-24-2016, 03:50 PM   #66
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Practice and verification through AIS, RADAR, chartplotter, etc does sharpen those skills.

I have been doing it most of my adult life and people are amazed at my interpretation of distances and use of peripheral vision skills. Even night vision is enhanced by search skills over plain old retina rods and cones explanation.

Often my "seeing" things long before others is because I have experience in extrapolating the shadowing or loss of light from distant light sources that places objects in a field my field of view that are yet unseen.

People who have done this kind of operations at night are probably familiar with the basics...it only gets you stares of disbelief from others not a quainted with it....
It may sound silly but we will actually observe visually and make our best estimates and then verify electronically and as we get closer to see whose guess was closest. Doing such any chance we get has made us a little better on top of telling us how unskilled at it we were initially.

As to seeing things before others, my wife always beats me there. She'll see something in the distance and it will take some time before she can point it out to me and get me to see it. We've had many "you don't see that?" "no" "right there" "I still don't see it" type conversations.
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:13 PM   #67
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A tip taught to me early in Search and Rescue is keep your eyes moving, don't stare in the direction someone is saying there is an object . There is a bit of an actual or mental blind spot right in front of your stare (maybe one of our eye docs can help me here)...so by darting your eyes back and forth, sometimes it is seen sooner.

Really is about practice. When living on Kodiak Island, my friends nicknamed me the Sockeye Ninja. I would walk to the river after dark and catch fish. They couldn't figure out what I could see or not. Finally I told them, I couldn't see the fish, but I could see a few light colored stones. When the stones disappeared, I cast just upstream of the stone They caught on quick.

Finding unlit buoys or noticing obstructions on waterways is the same sometimes, it is not the object you see, it is the datkness or shadow on the water that shouldn't be there that clues you in to where to look or shine the spotlight.
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:20 PM   #68
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A tip taught to me early in Search and Rescue is keep your eyes moving, don't stare in the direction someone is saying there is an object . There is a bit of an actual or mental blind spot right in front of your stare (maybe one of our eye docs can help me here)...so by darting your eyes back and forth, sometimes it is seen sooner.

Really is about practice. When living on Kodiak Island, my friends nicknamed me the Sockeye Ninja. I would walk to the river after dark and catch fish. They couldn't figure out what I could see or not. Finally I told them, I couldn't see the fish, but I could see a few light colored stones. When the stones disappeared, I cast just upstream of the stone They caught on quick.

Finding unlit buoys or noticing obstructions on waterways is the same sometimes, it is not the object you see, it is the datkness or shadow on the water that shouldn't be there that clues you in to where to look or shine the spotlight.
It is because of the whole rods and cones deal. The cones are in the center of your vision(back of the eye) and are good for clarity and color...but not light. Say they work well in good light. The rods are on the peripheral of your vision....or around the sides of your eye....and are good at picking up light in low light conditions. It is why you sometimes cannot see something at night if you look directly at it but if you look off to the side, you can see it.
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:23 PM   #69
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They still bother to put cockpit windows in commercial jets?

Wasn't sure.... as I know it is tough to see over the coffee cups.....

Please don't make fun of my 2 hour helo bladder, that's not fair....
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:00 PM   #70
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39 28.79N 075 34.46W

Just googling for Reedy Island Dyke will show that boats hit the dyke and sink on a pretty regular basis, including local rescue boats.
Thanks
Yes they do.
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:10 PM   #71
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For decades different boating publications called the Delaware River run as one of the most treacherous because of poorly marked shoals, dies and wing dams farther up from Philadelphia.

But it is hard to feel the same now in 2016 with GPS good to 3 foot accuracy and free nautical charts from the government.
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:14 PM   #72
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For decades different boating publications called the Delaware River run as one of the most treacherous because of poorly marked shoals, dies and wing dams farther up from Philadelphia.

But it is hard to feel the same now in 2016 with GPS good to 3 foot accuracy and free nautical charts from the government.
We haven't made that run yet, but we do want to sometime. I'm sure there's some beauty that we haven't seen and will if we do it. It's amazing how little the average coastal cruiser does see of the rivers and bays they pass by.
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:16 PM   #73
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We haven't made that run yet, but we do want to sometime. I'm sure there's some beauty that we haven't seen and will if we do it. It's amazing how little the average coastal cruiser does see of the rivers and bays they pass by.
Guided tours for cheap...
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:07 PM   #74
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Guided tours for cheap...
Wifey B: We see water continues somewhere and we want to find out where...like the Ohio River, we want to take it to Three Rivers and then check the three out.

Today we took the Rib up the Manitowoc.
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:31 PM   #75
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I was talking the Delaware River???
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:52 PM   #76
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For decades different boating publications called the Delaware River run as one of the most treacherous because of poorly marked shoals, dies and wing dams farther up from Philadelphia.

But it is hard to feel the same now in 2016 with GPS good to 3 foot accuracy and free nautical charts from the government.
You still have to know what you are looking at!!!
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:14 PM   #77
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Details..schmetails.....
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:28 PM   #78
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Details..schmetails.....
There are no "inconsequential errors"!!! There are hundreds of errors with no short term consequences. But left unchecked, they erode skill, vigilance and lead to the progressive disease of sloppiness. This is not being nit picky. Today's unmanaged error may be tomorrow's tragedy!!!

I think this airline stuff is wearing off on me!!!!...
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:57 PM   #79
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There are no "inconsequential errors"!!! There are hundreds of errors with no short term consequences. But left unchecked, they erode skill, vigilance and lead to the progressive disease of sloppiness. This is not being nit picky. Today's unmanaged error may be tomorrow's tragedy!!!

I think this airline stuff is wearing off on me!!!!...
Believe me...went through the early years of all that, helped pen the DoD and USCG risk management initiatives....most of it is totally lost on anyone that isn't in the business where it has become the mantra.

I talk about it with successful businessmen and they give me blank stares back much of the time...but my son just got out of the Nany as an HH60 aircrewman...and he can go toe to toe with me on all the high points of the last 20 years of aviation safety initiatives.

Lots of ways to skin the cat, but aviation seems to always lead the pack for honest error investigation and fleetwide implementation of programs to upgrade any kind of awareness, coordination, communication, standardization, etc...etc....

Plus I was only kidding....there were already some pointers right here just about reading charts and what kind are being used and whether or not tech is hindering some from getting all the info they need to safely navigate.

Funny how some on TF will go on and on about how licensing trades to work on a boats or house electrical systems or plumbing is so important...but they feel eminently qualified to run a boat without the slightest bit of formal training. Dang.....go figure...

The circle never ends.....
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:07 PM   #80
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Do yall think he hit the levee (or whatever it was) because he was relying only on electronic charts? Would paper charts have made a difference?

I don't have any paper charts to speak of, so that's why I'm wondering. If I have a question with something on my elec Garmin chart I'm usually able to get more info using Active Captain, but if I had to pull out a paper chart I would be pretty lost I think.
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