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Old 08-19-2016, 05:20 AM   #21
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Where it sank is heavily marsh silt laden saltwater. I would bet money the smell will never be completely gone.
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:55 AM   #22
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"..is that salvageable/fixable to a reliable enough state for continued ocean crossings or to avoid mold production etc?"

The real question is was she holed? And how large is the hole?

If modest it would be wise to have the hull surveyed for cracking /delaminiation..

A cracked hull perhaps would be fine to fix ,as a Gin Palace, but NOT for ocean service.

Sunk engines are no problem , if not with electrical injection , where the parts get expensive too fast.

Stench can be removed with an Ozone machine , just like a used car dealer does it.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:03 AM   #23
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"..is that salvageable/fixable to a reliable enough state for continued ocean crossings or to avoid mold production etc?"

The real question is was she holed? And how large is the hole?

If modest it would be wise to have the hull surveyed for cracking /delaminiation..

A cracked hull perhaps would be fine to fix ,as a Gin Palace, but NOT for ocean service.
A cracked hull can be repaired properly with no loss of serviceability.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:06 AM   #24
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Sounds perfectly awful! And it's not at all difficult to find that jetty in awful ways. Easy to say, and true, that it's well charted and well marked. But take a hazy day... or night.

I learned to sail on my father's Flying Dutchman. We sailed out of a now-long-gone marina south of New Castle, DE, in the late '50's, early 60's. While bobbing around, becalmed, on the Delaware side of the jetty, which at half tide is partly visible and partly submerged, but at high tide is nearly completely submerged, we became aware of a power boat on the other side. He went north, then south and then north again. Finally, he saw us and drove over to us, asking, "Where's the jetty?" His face was something to see when we told him that he'd just crossed it.

This ain't the 50s or 60s anymore. And I bet that wasn't a boat running with just a paper chart, a pair of binoculars and a compass.

Which would just reinforces the fact that no matter how many electronic aids you have, $hit can still go bad.
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Old 08-19-2016, 12:46 PM   #25
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"A cracked hull can be repaired properly with no loss of serviceability."

Perhaps,

I have been reading Pro Boat Builder for over a decade and have yet to see a method/system.

There have been "repairs" of very poorly constructed expensive boats , but not yet a cracked egg repair.
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Old 08-19-2016, 01:37 PM   #26
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Why not build a hull of Kevlar instead of fiberglass.
Kevlar will not crack open. It might shred somewhat.

Kevlar is harder to wet out and likely costs more.

http://www.dupont.com/products-and-s...omposites.html
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Old 08-19-2016, 01:56 PM   #27
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A cracked hull can be repaired properly with no loss of serviceability.
...much more worried about systems than hull.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:01 PM   #28
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"A cracked hull can be repaired properly with no loss of serviceability."

Perhaps,

I have been reading Pro Boat Builder for over a decade and have yet to see a method/system.

There have been "repairs" of very poorly constructed expensive boats , but not yet a cracked egg repair.
Last year the 109' a good friend on mine runs was cracked do to poor blocking (and construction IMO) and was repaired, re-insured for full service and is out there running around now with no issues.

And when I say "cracked", I mean you could see daylight through the cracks. And they were not small ones either.

In a way it's not unlike the work that is done when they cut the bottom out of a boat to drop out the old and reinstall new tanks.
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:02 PM   #29
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I seem to recall a Bayliner 4788 for sale up in BC that had two new engines, the entire electrical system redone, completely new carpet, upholstery etc....

The boat had sunk at the dock iirc. The repowered it with two small engines (Yanmars?) that would drive it only at displacement speeds. Not sure if it ever sold or not.
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Old 08-19-2016, 06:11 PM   #30
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I know of two Nordhavn's that have gone down and subsequently returned to service.

One is AdWorld, a 56 motor sailor which was dropped when unloading from the delivery ship. It was totaled by the insurance company, and an enterprising Austrailian bought it and brought it back to life. The repair work was extensive, but I don't think he paid much of anything for it initially. It is in regular use in Mexico currently.

The other is one of the 75EYFs. After a faulty local repair in Mexico, it sank at the dock. I don't know if it was totaled by insurance, but someone somewhere, somehow brought it back to service and I believe it's cruising the east coast currently.
There I also a N40 in the PNW that was caught on the rough when the tide went out and basically got filled fill with salt water when the tide came back in. I don't recall the details but the boat was refurbished and sold at least one time and was recently for sale again.

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Old 08-19-2016, 09:03 PM   #31
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There I also a N40 in the PNW that was caught on the rough when the tide went out and basically got filled fill with salt water when the tide came back in. I don't recall the details but the boat was refurbished and sold at least one time and was recently for sale again.

John
Right, that's "Hayden Bay", and the same boat mentioned my Reveille.
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Old 08-20-2016, 07:23 AM   #32
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If this had been a steel boat would it have sank?
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Old 08-20-2016, 07:55 AM   #33
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If this had been a steel boat would it have sank?
I can't say for sure, but this us my interpretation from a member of the salvage crew.

He described it more of a swamping than holing that ultimately sank the boat.

Like many incudents, best to hear several views before being reasonably sure of the facts....so I am waiting to hear more recounts of the incident.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:47 AM   #34
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Well if it ripped off a stabilizer then yes, like others have said anything can happen and Nordhavn's in most cases are out there traveling, which increases the odds of something happening.


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If this had been a steel boat would it have sank?
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:48 AM   #35
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Well if it ripped off a stabilizer then yes, like others have said anything can happen and Nordhavn's in most cases are out there traveling, which increases the odds of something happening.
In most cases a stabilizer will break away cleanly leaving no hole.

Punching one up through the bottom of your hull is another matter altogether.
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:26 AM   #36
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Well if it ripped off a stabilizer then yes, like others have said anything can happen and Nordhavn's in most cases are out there traveling, which increases the odds of something happening.
Hmmmm....can't say I've done much big water passage making, but every time I've hit something it's been within sight of shoreline.
It's what's driving my line of inquiry and decision making in my boat purchase. It would seem that the probability of hitting something, is much more likely costal cruising than in big water. Hence I'm giving steel a very serious consideration for that reason alone.
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:34 AM   #37
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Very true. We all do our best, but things happen. Sounds like they did their best to save her.

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The owner just posted this to the NordhavnDreamers Yahoo list which is a public forum so I don't mind repeating it here. By all indications it was a simple navigation mistake/oversight, and a sobering and tragic reminder how easy it is to overlook something, and how disastrous the results can be. We all make mistakes, and usually get away with it. But not this time...
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Old 08-23-2016, 12:36 PM   #38
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Nordhavn salvage

I know I've screwed up and/or missed things. Most memorable was crossing the mouth of the Columbia river at night, dodging the incoming and outgoing traffic. There was a brightly lit "something" ahead and to starboard, but quite far away. And a small return on our radar more or less on the same bearing. I decided the brightly lit blob was an on-shore facility of some sort, and radar return a boat which I continued to monitor.

ARPA showed the boat target clear of us, at least most of the time, but it was erratic. This went of for maybe 20-30 minutes and the darn small boat kept getting closer and closer, though still showed as clear most of the time. I was looking for its nav lights, but couldn't spot them, so assumed it was a small boat with lights lost in the sea state.

Then came the oh-shit. Turns out the big lit up facility was a fishing boat with all it's deck lights on, and was one in the same with my small radar target. The deck lights completely drowned out the boats nav lights, and we were on a direct collision course with me as the give way vessel.

Lessons learned:

- you can't judge the distance of lights at night. Not even close.

- even though a boat needs to display nav lights and nothing else that might confuse the same, boats don't comply

- Simrads ARPA doesn't work and creates more danger rather than reducing it.

I got way with it in this instance, but could just as well have become a statistic at the bottom of the sea.
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Old 08-23-2016, 12:53 PM   #39
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I know I've screwed up and/or missed things. Most memorable was crossing the mouth of the Columbia river at night, dodging the incoming and outgoing traffic. There was a brightly lit "something" ahead and to starboard, but quite far away. And a small return on our radar more or less on the same bearing. I decided the brightly lit blob was an on-shore facility of some sort, and radar return a boat which I continued to monitor.

ARPA showed the boat target clear of us, at least most of the time, but it was erratic. This went of for maybe 20-30 minutes and the darn small boat kept getting closer and closer, though still showed as clear most of the time. I was looking for its nav lights, but couldn't spot them, so assumed it was a small boat with lights lost in the sea state.

Then came the oh-shit. Turns out the big lit up facility was a fishing boat with all it's deck lights on, and was one in the same with my small radar target. The deck lights completely drowned out the boats nav lights, and we were on a direct collision course with me as the give way vessel.

Lessons learned:

- you can't judge the distance of lights at night. Not even close.

- even though a boat needs to display nav lights and nothing else that might confuse the same, boats don't comply

- Simrads ARPA doesn't work and creates more danger rather than reducing it.

I got way with it in this instance, but could just as well have become a statistic at the bottom of the sea.
There is a good "article" on the last page of PMY magazine by David Marlowe with a similar self reflective sentiment. If one is going to operate one's boat on the "edge"(for lack of better description), one has to be able to dissect the incident and learn from it even if it ended in success. There is no perfect "flight"!
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Old 08-23-2016, 01:12 PM   #40
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If this had been a steel boat would it have sank?
Not knowing what happened, we can't answer that. However, anyone who thinks a steel boat is impervious to sinking or other damage is quite mistaken. They simply are impacted differently by different things than are glass boats.
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