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Old 11-01-2019, 05:18 PM   #1
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Nordhavn 148

As if their 120 wasn't enough of a disaster in the making, they are now offering a 148. It is to be built to class, built out of metal, and ice worthy. They don't say who is actually going to build it or where. Build time supposed to be two years. Obviously they won't build until someone orders it so may never build one.
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Old 11-01-2019, 05:59 PM   #2
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Old 11-01-2019, 08:36 PM   #3
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Interesting. Within the last couple of hours I was talking to all the PAE principals and this never came up. Not that I think itís untrue.... just surprised it never came up. I know sometimes articles come out sooner than expected, and wonder if thatís the case here.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:13 PM   #4
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Interesting. Within the last couple of hours I was talking to all the PAE principals and this never came up. Not that I think it’s untrue.... just surprised it never came up. I know sometimes articles come out sooner than expected, and wonder if that’s the case here.
I wasn't there but heard from reliable sources that they announced it at FLIBS.

Hasn't made their website yet.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:31 PM   #5
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How many times have companies failed because of over-reach. I have felt that Nordhavn have been skirting this for a few years now. Wanting to become more than what they were known for.

IMO - a business disaster in the making.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:47 PM   #6
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As a JV with Vripack it could certainly work out quite well. Vripack has a lot of in place skill sets with big yachts in their DNA. I for one give PAE a lot more credit to leap outside the box than others, but time will tell.

One thing for sure, the new biggie will not be dry stack
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:11 PM   #7
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It looks like a ferry. Doesn't have that signature, bad ass, take no prisoners Nordy look. Lol
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:43 PM   #8
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I like the looks of the new boat and agree with Sunchaser. The synergy each company brings to the table could turn out to be one of those 1+1=3
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Old 11-02-2019, 12:17 AM   #9
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As a JV with Vripack it could certainly work out quite well. Vripack has a lot of in place skill sets with big yachts in their DNA. I for one give PAE a lot more credit to leap outside the box than others, but time will tell.

One thing for sure, the new biggie will not be dry stack
Let's just remember the last time they went big, it jeopardized their business, not once, but twice.

They've also not done well other times stepping outside their norm and recently they've been stepping out in multiple directions.

I have to wonder if all this signifies strength in their basic business that they feel allows this or some weakness in their basic business leading them to make these moves.
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Old 11-02-2019, 04:00 PM   #10
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And letís not forget that Nordhavn is one of the manufacturers dealing with a 25% tariff situation. This was a big topic of conversation at the show.

Marlow and Hampton are two others in this situation.

It certainly creates an advantage for those building outside of China.
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Old 11-02-2019, 04:38 PM   #11
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And let’s not forget that Nordhavn is one of the manufacturers dealing with a 25% tariff situation. This was a big topic of conversation at the show.

Marlow and Hampton are two others in this situation.

It certainly creates an advantage for those building outside of China.
Well, their 41 is being built in Turkey so get's around that and I wonder if they don't plan on building the 148 in Turkey. Of course, not an issue, until they sell one.

As to the tariff, Nordhavn's work around is to deliver and flag outside the US. Now, that creates challenges on commissioning.
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Old 11-02-2019, 05:14 PM   #12
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I am far down the boat buying food chain from the target audience on this one so my view is not material to the success of the idea here.....but I still have one.
The look of this is not exciting for me but that has been the state of things for some time with PAE. While I significantly admire the aura they have been able to create in the market and recognize from a business standpoint that that is really all that matters, they have not created a vessel that has moved me for a very long time subsequent to two of the early models, the 46 and the 62.
I have long admired Vripack but think this is also a departure for them that may not serve them well, though again, understand that I am not among the target audience for a project like this.
I suppose it is not that risky for either as I assume it is not built until it is sold. I agree that there is some chance that the desire on their part to do something like this is likely a comment on the health of the markets they normally serve or a significant expansion of this 8+ digit market buyer pool.
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Old 11-02-2019, 05:29 PM   #13
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Yacht meant for tough conditions has large windows near water line??????
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:18 PM   #14
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Yacht meant for tough conditions has large windows near water line??????
Yes, I assume Sea Glass or Equivalent. Not anything odd or unique.

I just have to ask of Nordhavn, "Why?"

Typical reason given for moving up is your existing owners are looking to move up, but I don't see that with Nordhavn owners. I haven't seen them demanding 100'+ and definitely not to 148' and haven't seen them asking for steel. Now, I'm sure there's one somewhere thinking I'd like to spend $30 million for an Ice Class Yacht.

However, there are plenty of people already doing it. What special does Nordhavn bring to it? They're not a yacht builder. Vripack does know the business. Reality is this won't be a Nordhavn in any real sense of the word. Even the N41 has more in common with their other boats and it has very little.

This is like RIVA building a 161' Superyacht. Steel hull, Aluminum structure. Slow boat. That's not a Riva. However, they have one advantage, they can build it in a factory used for building other boats for other Ferretti owned brands (CRN).

Westport moved up to 164' years ago as buyers would go from 112' to 130' and then wanted bigger and they didn't want to lose them. Still fiberglass and same heritage in same plants. Now, for a couple of years, they've talked about building a 200' or so megayacht (213' was last I heard). It would be steel/aluminum. The reason given was 164 owners wanting to move up and they hated sending them elsewhere. Sounds a little less insane only when you realize the owner of Westport owns Edison Chouest and they build a lot of commercial vessels. This wouldn't be a true Westport, but a boat built by Chouest and labelled Westport.

Nordhavn has none of the convenience Riva or Westport has and so as little sense as it appears to make for them, it makes even less for Nordhavn.

Anyone who wanted to could go to the same yard Nordhavn will use, get a design from a proven Naval Architect and build a boat under any brand they chose. I just don't see the synergy with the rest of Nordhavn's business nor any factor that says it is a logical move.
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:00 PM   #15
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You make some good points. You mentioned Westport. Their roots are Bayliner. I well remember the carping and moaning that occurred when they decided to move up market and started into Westport class boats. They saw their bread and butter Bayliner lines retreating. With a new bloodline taking over at Nordhavn, wings are spreading with that group.

As you well know, the 150' market is pretty strong, primarily due to favorable tax rules for chartering. Elizabeth is as big a worry in the big boat business as China and Turkey are in the little boat business. Lots going on and it is kind of exciting. Whether outboards booming, KK getting into the SD boat business again, Ranger Tugs building bigger, etc - the list of out of the box new designs is pretty neat.
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:11 PM   #16
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You make some good points. You mentioned Westport. Their roots are Bayliner. I well remember the carping and moaning that occurred when they decided to move up market and started into Westport class boats. They saw their bread and butter Bayliner lines retreating. With a new bloodline taking over at Nordhavn, wings are spreading with that group.
Sorry, your Westport information isn't exactly true. Orin Edson owned Bayliner and sold it to Brunswick At that time he did not own Westport although was acquainted. He then started Pacific Mariner. During that time Orin actually had a 164' built for himself by Admiral Boats and Daryl Wakefield was actually in charge at Admiral. Subsequently the Rust Family was facing financial challenges with Westport and Orin bought into the ownership. Daryl Wakefield was the President of Westport and still is. They then agreed to merge Pacific Mariner into Westport. After a short time, Orin bought the remainder of Westport to become 100% owner. Orin then sold Westport to Gary Chouest, who with his family owns Edison Chouest. They also own American Custom Yachts. It was while owner of Westport, Orin had them build a 164' as he wanted to be running a Westport personally.

Westport had no roots in Bayliner. Orin Edson, as founder of Bayliner, certainly did. However, you can see a similar heritage in Bayliner, Pacific Mariner and Westport, based on general location and based on naval architect, William Garden as well as others of the same school such as Jack Sarin. You can also see the same control of manufacturing throughout all organizations and certainly the PNW builders had good relationships through the years and shared ideas. Westport was the first to build yachts modularly.

Westport actually started in 1964 as a builder of commercial vessels. They built fishing boats, ferries, and coast guard vessels. They built well over 200 commercial vessels. They actually formed Westport Yachts in 1977. It was owned by Rick and Randy Rust. They started taking orders, primarily for hulls which they shipped to shipyards all over the world. They built around 100 bare hulls for other builders. It was the mid 80's before they actually built Westport Yachts, starting with Jack Sarin designs. The 112' was one of the first and the 98' not long after.
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