Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-28-2015, 05:34 PM   #1
Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,291
Nordhaven loses its identity

Up until recently when the NH word was uttered one would instantly know you are talking blue water heavy FD boat. Now that NH has conceded that there are a large # of buyers who use their boats in ways that are not suited to the classic NH the company has released both Sport fishing planning hull and coastal cruising SD hull models. So I say for those few die hard classic FD NH fans even NH must now agree that the best boat is the one that comes closest to matching the use pattern of the owners and for many the heavy FD classic NH is not the best fit. Of course the larger market for SD and SF and the use of the established NH branding and the potential $ to be made must have also been in the mix.
__________________
Advertisement

eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 05:42 PM   #2
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
I'm pretty sure the 75EYF is FD...
__________________

__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 06:46 PM   #3
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
You do realize the N-35, the power boat Nordhavn started with, was a semi displacement boat? That makes the 59 Coastal Pilot more of a back to the future sorta boat and as Oliver pointed out the yacht fisher 75 is very much FD. Perhaps why only 3 where built, what fun is a fish killer without 20+ knot speed to go with it? Out of 500+ hulls these two models sound more like anomalies at this point than some sort of grand departure. Time and the market will ultimately tell.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 06:55 PM   #4
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,193
I think you are talking about 3 different boats, each with it's own story. They are:

Toro 60
Lanzarote 22M
Coastal Pilot 59

The Toro and Lanzarote are listed on the Brokerage page under the category of "Non-Nordhavns". Both boats were independent projects taken on my South Coast which is one of the ship yards that builds Nordhavns. The Toro was done entirely by South with no involvement by PAE, and was targeted for the Asia market. It's being offered for sale here as well as a non-Nordhavn boat. The same is true for the Lanzarote, but I believe Jeff Leishman helped with the design in some ways. I don't think you will see either boat become Nordhavn branded, but you never know.

The Coastal Pilot 59 is definitely a Nordhavn, designed by PAE, and being built by Ta Shing which is the other ship yard that builds Nordhavns. PAE have floated a number of trial-ballon designs over the year, but they feel the 59 is "the one" and have been building the tooling. I think they normally don't build the first of a new model until they have an order, but in this case they have moved forward with tooling. I don't know if they have any orders at this point.

So I think your comment about PAE expanding beyond just the FD market is certainly correct, but it's really just one boat at the moment. I wouldn't count the Toro and Lanzarote.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 07:06 PM   #5
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
You do realize the N-35, the power boat Nordhavn started with, was a semi displacement boat? That makes the 59 Coastal Pilot more of a back to the future sorta boat and as Oliver pointed out the yacht fisher 75 is very much FD. Perhaps why only 3 where built, what fun is a fish killer without 20+ knot speed to go with it? Out of 500+ hulls these two models sound more like anomalies at this point than some sort of grand departure. Time and the market will ultimately tell.
I'm not sure when the N-35 started and ended, but it's not the boat they started with. The N-46 was first, followed by the N-62.

But you are correct that the N-35 is SD.

I definitely would characterize the CP-59 as an expansion, not a departure. The FD boat's aren't going away or being de-emphasized.

I just too a look and the N-35 came out in 2001 and ran for 5 years with 24 built.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 07:16 PM   #6
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
I'm not sure when the N-35 started and ended, but it's not the boat they started with. The N-46 was first, followed by the N-62.

But you are correct that the N-35 is SD.

I definitely would characterize the CP-59 as an expansion, not a departure. The FD boat's aren't going away or being de-emphasized.

I just too a look and the N-35 came out in 2001 and ran for 5 years with 24 built.
I stand corrected , thank you for that. Didn't realize the 46 and 62 had been around longer than the 35. They are all really different style wise.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 07:44 PM   #7
Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,291
I think the Toro 60 a full out planning SF will for the time being not be branded NH but I believe NH is deeply involved a little like TP when it built multiple brand names or GB with Eastbays . Its still the movers and shakers behind NH who are instigating this expansion. No I did not realize the little NH was SD learn something every day.
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 08:38 PM   #8
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
I think the Toro 60 a full out planning SF will for the time being not be branded NH but I believe NH is deeply involved a little like TP when it built multiple brand names or GB with Eastbays . Its still the movers and shakers behind NH who are instigating this expansion. No I did not realize the little NH was SD learn something every day.
Yes, the Toro is a full planing hull. The movers and shakers, i.e. Dan Streech, Jim Leishman, and Jeff Leishman are definitely behind the CP59. But the Toro and Lanzarote came about as I described, not driven by PAE. Dan told me the whole story behind them. Both boats were in the yard in Xiaman while mine was being built, and the Toro came over with mine on the same ship. After being unloaded, the Toro made the trip from San Diego to Dana Point WAY faster than my boat. Now if the Toro takes off in sales I'm sure PAE won't ignore that, but in the mean time it's a non-Nordhavn brand.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 08:59 PM   #9
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
...what fun is a fish killer without 20+ knot speed to go with it?
Hey, I resemble that remark!!

To answer your question, lots of friggin' fun...especially if you're retired!!

__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 09:11 PM   #10
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
I'm with Craig!
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1425175889.213477.jpg
Views:	148
Size:	43.5 KB
ID:	37806
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 09:30 PM   #11
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by N4712 View Post
I'm with Craig!
Not being a fisherman, I can take it slow.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 09:49 PM   #12
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Not being a fisherman, I can take it slow.


I can do both.
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 03:54 AM   #13
THD
Guru
 
City: Seattle
Country: US
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,142
Actually, PAE's first boats, from their beginning in 1978, were sailboats designed by Al Mason, the Mason 43 being the first. They did not build the 46, their first power boat until 1988 after the sailboat market tanked.
THD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 04:45 AM   #14
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Fast or slow the damn fish see me coming...
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 06:34 AM   #15
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
With out the ocean scantlings requirement , perhaps the price can go down by 2/3?
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 07:58 AM   #16
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by THD View Post
Actually, PAE's first boats, from their beginning in 1978, were sailboats designed by Al Mason, the Mason 43 being the first. They did not build the 46, their first power boat until 1988 after the sailboat market tanked.
That's correct. I should have said the 46 was the first boat designed by PAE. Jeff Leishman in particular. That's a Mason going down the streets of NYC at the end of Romancing the Stone. Beautiful boats, in my opinion.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 10:04 AM   #17
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
.....what fun is a fish killer without 20+ knot speed to go with it?


54' Sport fisher 27 knots
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2465.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	132.5 KB
ID:	37838  
__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 10:08 AM   #18
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
With out the ocean scantlings requirement , perhaps the price can go down by 2/3?

Given quality and hardware will remain the same as all other Nordhavn's, probably not.
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 11:21 AM   #19
Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,291
This probe of NH into the SD market may not go anywhere there is a lot of competition out there and I don't think too many classic NH owners are going to trade up to a NH SD not enough to make a difference. It will probably take a few years for the dust to settle.
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 11:41 AM   #20
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
This probe of NH into the SD market may not go anywhere there is a lot of competition out there and I don't think too many classic NH owners are going to trade up to a NH SD not enough to make a difference. It will probably take a few years for the dust to settle.
I don't think NH expects their present clientele to move to these SD hulls. They would probably be looking for new clients that are not candidates for for FD hulls, but want quality construction and aftermarket support. Whether they can compete with the current offerings and make it pay is another story.
__________________

Sailor of Fortune is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012