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Old 02-16-2011, 08:06 AM   #21
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RE: Noisy electric heads

One more question... recognizing that anyone's supply of freshwater is not limitless when out cruising (we do have 360 gallons but I know water can get used up quickly) is there any reason why we couldn't convert the master cabin head which has some major issues to a new freshwater (and hopefully quiet) head and keep the forward Jabsco head which is still functioning (but noisy) as a raw water intake? Is there any problem with having two different systems?

Both heads are plumbed to a 100 gallon head tank. We use some kind of enzymes treatment and pump out as required.

The only odour problem we notice is that unfortunately the vent for the head tank is right near the window for the forward head and so sometimes we get more of a smell than we would wish, so we still have to solve that problem. I think I have read somewhere about putting a filter on the head tank hose vent - I am not sure how well that will work. In the meantime, HeadMistress, I have just ordered your book!

I can't wait 'til winter is gone... our boat is still on the hard until springtime but if it will only warm up, we could get some work done to remedy these issues. Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:14 AM   #22
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RE: Noisy electric heads

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:


Moonstruck wrote:.... and hearing the roar of the Raritan.* It just doesn't get much better!
Very funny, but there's a nugget of truth in there somewhere.

Walt, it happens quite frequently.* While waxing poetic, I thought that I would put it in the form of a poem for Peggy.


Ode to the Raritan

Ahh, there is nothing like waking in a quiet anchorage
walking out on the back deck with coffee in hand
listening and watching the birds and sounds of nature
and hearing the roar of the Raritan

*
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:18 AM   #23
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RE: Noisy electric heads

Should I worry about my toilets at home backing into my drinking water?
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:30 AM   #24
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Noisy electric heads

*"Is there any problem with having two different systems?"

NO. I almost went that way but decided to go freshwater with both. And....I carry 240 gal fresh water and have never been close to running out.




-- Edited by jleonard on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 09:32:06 AM
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:35 AM   #25
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RE: Noisy electric heads

Everybody LOVES a Haiku:

I don't understand
Loud toilets don't bother me
Everybody poops

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Old 02-16-2011, 09:38 AM   #26
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RE: Noisy electric heads

Quote:
Moonstruck wrote:.... and hearing the roar of the Raritan.* It just doesn't get much better!
Very funny, but there's a nugget of truth in there somewhere.

Walt, it happens quite frequently.* While waxing poetic, I thought that I would put it in the form of a poem for Peggy.


Ode to the Raritan

Ahh, there is nothing like waking in a quiet anchorage
walking out on the back deck with coffee in hand
listening and watching the birds and sounds of nature
and hearing the roar of the Raritan

Thenk you sew much!

But you need to rename it "Ode to the Crown Head"*

One of the earliest macerating electric toilets, the Raritan Crown Head is a sea water toilet that's been around since the late '60s. It's a dinosaur that draws a whopping 36 amps (an earlier version drew 50!), needs 1-3 gallons of water/flush...and makes enough noise to wake the dead.* It's also a real workhorse that's just about indesctructable...making it a the perfect choice for a working tug in NY harbor or "Deadliest Catch" fishing trawler, but no longer a toilet* that recreational boat owners (except for a few die-hard geriatric houseboat owners) still want. *

Btw...Mansfield (Mansfield Plumbing spun off its marine toilet division to a new startup called SeaLand Technology in 1984)* invented the VacuFlush in the late '70s as the answer to the Crown Head...and for more than a decade the V/Flush was the "only game in town" that used pressurized fresh water, needed only a couple of quarts of it and drew less than 10 amps. That all changed in the early '90s when just about every toilet mfr began introducing fresh water versions of* macerating electric toilets that offered everything the V/Flush does and more...and for a lot less money.*

Just a little trivia....*
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:50 AM   #27
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RE: Noisy electric heads

Quote:
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Thenk you sew much!

But you need to rename it "Ode to the Crown Head"*
Poetic license here, Peggy.* Crown head wouldn't rhyme.

*
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:54 AM   #28
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RE: Noisy electric heads

Quote:
sunchaser wrote:Should I worry about my toilets at home backing into my drinking water?
No...because the flush water in your toilets at home goes into a tank, not the toilet.* From the tank it simply drains by gravity into the bowl. That makes it impossible for bowl contents to recirculate into the flush water tank, which keeps e-coli and other bacteria and viri out of the potable water plumbing.

Marine toilets, otoh, pull flush water directly into the bowl. Any number of things can cause a marine toilet to recirculate.* Toilets that are designed to use pressurized flush water have built in safeguards--siphon breaks and one way valves--plus, the flush water is PUSHED into the bowl.* Raw water toilets PULL water in...so connecting to a pressurized line can damage a pump, especially a manual pump...and there are no safeguards built in to prevent recirculation.

I'm not a fan of aftermarket "conversion kits"...too many people don't follow directions...WAAAY too many never even heard the term "PREVENTIVE* maintenance"...they only fix what breaks...and plain ol' age can wear machined parts in some toilets--notably Groco EBs and Ks that are 15-20 years old, causing 'em to recirculate. * So IMO, if you want a toilet that uses pressurized flush water, BUY one that's designed to do that...cobbling one up yourself is just too risky.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:56 AM   #29
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RE: Noisy electric heads

Quote:
Moonstruck wrote:Poetic license here, Peggy.* Crown head wouldn't rhyme.
Aha!
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:24 AM   #30
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RE: Noisy electric heads

how much freshwater does the newer freshwater systems use each flush?

also, i am wondering where in the system the macerator fits in.
it seems to me that in a regular electric marine head, the flush goes into the holding tank without any grinding.
if you dump out, then the macerator does its job, but if you use a pump out station to vacuum the waste out, no macration has been done?
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:49 AM   #31
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RE: Noisy electric heads

As I understand it, in both fresh water and raw water set ups, the maceration or grinding happens as it exits the head before it ever gets to the head tank... at least that is how it works with our electric raw water Jabsco system.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:53 AM   #32
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RE: Noisy electric heads

In my system freshwater volume depends on how long you hold the switch.
We use more water in the aft head because it has a long run to the holding tank.
The macerator is at the bowl exit and runs whenever the flush solenoid is open, therefore everything going into the holding tank is macerated.
So everything that is pumped out via the pump out station.
I have no means to pump overboard at the moment and will*keep it that way as long as pumpout stations (and pumpout boat services like we have in the northeast) ) are available and convenient and affordable.
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:02 PM   #33
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RE: Noisy electric heads

Quote:
jleonard wrote:

"Is there any problem with having two different systems?"

NO. I almost went that way but decided to go freshwater with both. And....I carry 240 gal fresh water and have never been close to running out.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would love to go with just the freshwater system for both heads (if we decide we can afford to change both heads at once) *... it sounds like it is the quietest and least smelly option..

When you say you were never close to running out of fresh water, what was the longest time you were away from fresh water access and with how many people?

I really should monitor our water usage a little better .. so far we have never rationed our water... we actually have a shower/tub which probably uses a lot ..




*
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:39 PM   #34
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Noisy electric heads

Delia Rosa,
I don't remember who made the quiet flush kit unfortunately, but might be worth a Google.

The conversion is really easy to do - may be 4 hours work if you already have a sea-water wash-down pump. You just need to wire in a solenoid valve and get some hose and clamps. Our is also connected to a Lectrasan which made the wring a little more complex - but still quite easy. Cut the disk out of any flat piece of plastic - it doesn't need to be a precise fit.
Cheers,

-- Edited by Bendit on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 02:40:38 PM
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:54 PM   #35
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Noisy electric heads

Quote:
Per wrote:

how much freshwater does the newer freshwater systems use each flush?

also, i am wondering where in the system the macerator fits in.
it seems to me that in a regular electric marine head, the flush goes into the holding tank without any grinding.
if you dump out, then the macerator does its job, but if you use a pump out station to vacuum the waste out, no macration has been done?
Starting one* at a time.
how much freshwater does the newer freshwater systems use each flush?
Approx 2 quarts

also, i am wondering where in the system the macerator fits in.
It's just a blade, not unlike a the blade in a blender, in the toilet.

it seems to me that in a regular electric marine head, the flush goes into the holding tank without any grinding.
That depends on the type of toilet.* Most electric toilets macerate...manual toilets, incnluding those who've replaced the pump handle with a motor, don't.

if you dump out, then the macerator does its job, but if you use a pump out station to vacuum the waste out, no macration has been done?

Yes...no...but it really doesn't matter...'cuz some (most electric) toilets macerate...some don't.* Some pumps that dump tanks macerate...some don't. It's not a big deal because solid waste dissolves very quickly in water and so does quick dissolve TP..so there's not--or shouldn't be- much in the toilet or tank that needs macerating,* If there is, somebody flushed something they shouldn't have..

Btw...anything named "quiet flush" is a Jabsco (read: bottom of ANY equipment food chain) product.


-- Edited by HeadMistress on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 07:56:43 PM
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:30 PM   #36
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Noisy electric heads

Quote:
Peggy wrote:
Tecma toilets are made in Italy...one of the best on the market.*

Peggy,* I have to differ with you.* The well documented problems I have had with the Tecma Silence continue to this day, and as you are aware, this has been going on for several years.* Despite the known design flaw, and the factory fix for this problem, to date, I have been unable to get the correct part.* About once a year, a dealer contacts me after seeing my posts about the problem, and offers to help get it fixed, but then never follows through.* This happened again about three months ago, and after a few back and forth emails, the communications stopped.* At this point, I would recomend folks stay far away from any Tecma products, their customer service is awfull.* I'm so fed up with the Tecma, I'm about ready to send it to a land fill, despite having spent a LOT of money on it.................Arctic Traveller
-- Edited by Arctic Traveller on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 10:30:42 PM

-- Edited by Arctic Traveller on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 10:37:26 PM
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Old 02-17-2011, 05:44 AM   #37
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RE: Noisy electric heads

"When you say you were never close to running out of fresh water, what was the longest time you were away from fresh water access and with how many people"

About 10 days with 2 people aboard. I boat in the LI Sound area. Water is easy to get if I need it.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:28 AM   #38
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RE: Noisy electric heads

Jeff, in all of my travels and all the sites I'm on, you're the only person I've ever heard complain about the Tecma. If I were that unhappy with ANYTHING, I'd have put the d'd thing up for sale on eBay or Craigs list and replaced it long ago!

Meanwhile, since all your problems are a result of silt in the local sea water, have you considered replumbing it to use fresh water. That can be done safely by adding another tank. The easiest way to do it would be to find a space into which you can stuff an unvented bladder...connect the head intake line to it...connect a fill line to a sink drain line using a y-valve. That's the only plumbing needed. When the water in the bladder runs low, run water down the sink and turn the y-valve to fill it. Totally safe because there's no head plumbing connected to any fresh water plumbing.
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:16 PM   #39
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RE: Noisy electric heads

Quote:
HeadMistress wrote:

Jeff, in all of my travels and all the sites I'm on, you're the only person I've ever heard complain about the Tecma.
Hi Peggy,* I don't think I'm the only one to have these problems, here is an email I got from a Master Tecma dealer:

Hi Jeff,


My name is Noel Dyne and I am the agent for Tecma in Mallorca, Spain.** I have just seen your emails on "Passage Maker".

I am sorry to hear that you have had a lot of problems with your Tecma toilet

I have had this problem with the breather*many times before. I agree that it*is a nightmare when the breather hose gets blocked because the toilet acts as if it is blocked but when you strip it you cannot find any problem with the toilet. There is a new inlet hose which is simular but*may stop this problem.

The underlining was done by Noel, not me.* Here is a second email I got from another dealer a few months ago, admitting he has seen the problem too.*

I saw a post on trawlerforum.com regarding a Tecma discharge hose airlock issue.* We are a distributor and service center for Thetford/Tecma products.* In the years we have been servicing these toilets, we have only come across this issue a few times.

He may have only seen it a few times, but he is only one dealer, and plenty of others have seen it too, so I think it's safe to say I'm not the only one to have the problem.* As for doing a major overhaul of my system, it's not in the cards.* I just wish I could get the proper re-designed part, but no dealer has ever followed through.** Again, I highly recommend staying away from Tecma due to known design flaws, and lousy customer service.........Arctic Traveller
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:22 AM   #40
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RE: Noisy electric heads

The flush toilets at home are noisy.* So ... why shouldn't marine toilets be noisy too?
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