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06-23-2017, 07:22 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Vessel Model: Currently Boatless
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 397
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Nitrogen for air in dinghy?
Ok, so my new car uses Nitrogen for air in the tires. Apparently race drivers are now using this in their cars due to the stability of the air pressure. Pressure doesn't change due to tire temperature changes.
I started thinking if anyone has tried this in an inflatable dinghy to prevent all the soft to hard tubes all the time??
Anyone heard of this or would it be too expensive to fill?
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06-23-2017, 07:42 PM
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#2
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Guru
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taras
Ok, so my new car uses Nitrogen for air in the tires. Apparently race drivers are now using this in their cars due to the stability of the air pressure. Pressure doesn't change due to tire temperature changes.
I started thinking if anyone has tried this in an inflatable dinghy to prevent all the soft to hard tubes all the time??
Anyone heard of this or would it be too expensive to fill?
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Hum, it's been a long time since I learned this stuff, but isn't the pressure of a gas just a simple relationship between volume and temp? I don't recall the type of gas making any difference. Someone must be more current on this than I am......
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MVTanglewood.com
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06-23-2017, 07:45 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
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Nitrogen is already over 70% of the air.
It's got nothing to do with stability and everything to do with moisture. Aircraft use nitrogen because it comes in bottles and is dry. You don't want moisture in a tire you carry to -65 degrees. You also don't want a compressor way out on the ramp for checking tires and nitrogen is also used in hydraulic accumulators. For race cars I would bet it's for the portable bottles and the wish for no moisture. For cars, it's a marketing have, you get to wear a little green button on your tire which makes you cool and trendy. If you spent money for nitrogen, give me a call, I have a really nice bridge for sale...
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
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06-23-2017, 07:46 PM
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#4
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,541
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Greetings,
Mr. T. Air is 78% nitrogen. I suspect that racing tire pressures are somewhat more critical than dinghy pressures or even regular car tires. My personal feeling is filling your car tires with nitrogen is more of a gimmick than anything else. In fact, I think, internal pressure DOES change with temperature just over less of a range with pure nitrogen.
Mr. tt. "...the type of gas making any difference." You could be correct in that. It's been a long time since physical chemistry although I DO remember the prof.- Dinesh Bhatnagar. I can still hear him say "PV=nRT" but have forgotten mostly everything else. Good ole' Dinesh...
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RTF
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06-23-2017, 08:10 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
City: Freeport Tx
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 135
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Xsbank is right would do you no benefit in a inflatable boat
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06-23-2017, 08:11 PM
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#6
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Guru
City: Palm Coast, FL
Vessel Name: Coquina
Vessel Model: Lagoon 380
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,570
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There is a rule for passenger aircraft using nitrogen in braked wheels to use nitrogen. Not for loss of gas due to seepage or pressure stability with temperature, but simply to be more fire resistant. I would assume the same for race cars.
In car tires, the theory is the big vs small molecule thing; driving seepage loss.
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06-23-2017, 08:17 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: Cape May, NJ
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,947
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N2 in a dinghy would be a hassle and a waste of time. No gain over plain old air.
Sure would impress someone at the dock though.
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Archie
Irish Lady
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Currently in Cape May, NJ
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06-23-2017, 08:20 PM
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#8
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Master and Commander
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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Could liquid nitrogen serve a positive usage on our trawlers?
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Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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06-23-2017, 08:24 PM
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#9
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,738
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Great ...
Get out of your dinghy and it floats up in the trees.
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Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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06-23-2017, 08:28 PM
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#10
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,541
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Greetings,
Mr. mp. "Could liquid nitrogen serve a positive usage on our trawlers?" Other than shrink fitting mechanical parts and keeping ice cream WAY too cold I really can't think of ANY uses aboard. Aside from it's inherent danger (used medically for removing warts, skin lesions etc.) due to it's extreme cold it is VERY difficult to store smaller amounts for any appreciable length of time even in the best Dewar flasks.
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RTF
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06-23-2017, 08:28 PM
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#11
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Master and Commander
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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Why not use helium then?
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Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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06-23-2017, 08:40 PM
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#12
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
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I keep a cryogenic chamber aboard in case I croak at sea and maybe can be revived once in port....
Nothing too good for the captain.
But it did bump me over the 10% rule for annual maintenance.
Liquid niitrogen is expensive to keep.
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06-23-2017, 09:21 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: Palm Coast, FL
Vessel Name: Coquina
Vessel Model: Lagoon 380
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,570
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I once considered liquid Oxygen to bring on long dive trips to the islands to pump for nitrox. There are small cryo systems out there. But, the gas keeps seeping out the system; gone in a couple weeks. So, back to 250cf steel bottles.
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06-23-2017, 09:41 PM
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#14
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Guru
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
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It's my understanding that whale fart gas is the most desirable of all gasses for inflatables.
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06-23-2017, 09:44 PM
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#15
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TF Site Team
City: California Delta
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,728
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I think I'll color my dinghy caps green just to impress people.
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06-23-2017, 10:04 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: Fort Pierce
Vessel Name: Florita Ann
Vessel Model: 1982 Present
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,935
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The only use I can think of for nitrogen in our wheel house is if you have a keel or a cored deck that is wet. Running nitrogen through it will wix out the moisture. Case in point: Wet telephone cable (usually under a street, buried or no more ducts) put a liquid nitrogen tank on one side of the street and tube it into the cable, a metered valve on the other. Then adjust the regulator and metering valve and let it blow through the cable for a few days-weeks. Will dry it out nicely. This will work on cored decks, hulls or keels.
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06-23-2017, 10:08 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: Boston
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11
It's my understanding that whale fart gas is the most desirable of all gasses for inflatables.
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EPA banned it. Global warming problem.
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06-23-2017, 10:30 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: West Coast
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
Hum, it's been a long time since I learned this stuff, but isn't the pressure of a gas just a simple relationship between volume and temp? I don't recall the type of gas making any difference. Someone must be more current on this than I am......
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As I recall, it was Boyle who thought so. I do carry a large (industrial sized) tank full of helium -- we use it for fishing.
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06-24-2017, 12:33 AM
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#19
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TF Site Team
City: Ex-Brisbane, (Australia), now Bribie Island, Qld
Vessel Name: Now boatless - sold 6/2018
Vessel Model: Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,100
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Guys, the only point of using nitrogen in anything you pump up is the absence of oxygen, thereby the material containing it, usually a type of rubber, is less attacked by oxidation, so lasts a bit longer. No other gain, other than no oxygen. No difference in pressure changes due to temp changes, no real flammability benefit - just the slightly longer tyre life. Useful in some situations, eg, of very expensive (read large) tyres. Not much in anything else.
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Pete
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06-24-2017, 12:39 AM
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#20
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Veteran Member
City: Trosa
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 53
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Oxygen molecules, are smaller than nitrogen molecules, so oxygen can escape through a car tire, because there are very small, pores in the rubber. But nitrogen molecules that are larger in size, can not. That's why they use it in racing. Racing causes higher stress, to all materials, and can be compared to a personal vehicle during a longer time. So i believe a rubber dingy could last its pressure, for a longer time. But it is not worth the money, and because living on a trawler, is not anything close to run a marathon, I think using the foot pump won't kill you.
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