Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-27-2019, 02:36 PM   #1
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,093
Consequences of overpowering a dinghy?

In another thread the topic of overpowering a dinghy came up. Rather than hijack that thread, I though I'd start a new one.


Small boats all have a sticker in them listing max load and power capacities, but I have no idea what law or regulation those are based on, and who cares.


So if the sticker on my boat says 40hp max, and I put a 50hp on it, what happens? Will the Coast Guard ticket me? Or maybe the local law enforcement types? Will an insurance company not insure it? How would they even know what the HP limits are for the boat?


Who actually cares, and does it really matter? I intentionally picked the numbers In this example because it's not massively over powered, and not a much heavier engine, which I think would be the obvious Darwin moves that someone could make.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 02:52 PM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,191
I am not a lawyer but I believe the term is prima facia evidence of negligence. Your insurance will probably be void and you will get cited if LE catches you. But other than that what’s the problem.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 03:10 PM   #3
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
Yes, your voyage can be terminated .yes, LEO do sometimes check the capacity plate, definitely if it is not just a random boarding as in accident.

While against the law, especially state laws in particular, but I am not sure what the penalties are.

Likely a fine, maybe in states with safety certificates some sort or revocation.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 03:21 PM   #4
Guru
 
South of Heaven's Avatar
 
City: Sharon, Ma
Vessel Name: Slow Lane
Vessel Model: 2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,167
Cmon, be a rebel. ��
__________________
Jason

2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht
South of Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 03:31 PM   #5
Guru
 
City: Northport
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,046
The LEO's in our harbor will occasionally check and they will ticket you.
Your dinghy warrantee will be voided.
If you have an accident involving someone else your situation will become complicated quickly.

And if none of this happens you will likely just have a poor performing RIB due to weight and/or Hp.
smitty477 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 04:46 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
City: Green Country
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 243
This seem to me to be kind of an overreach though a bit of web time found there is an actual performance test to determine max HP ratings.

33 CFR 183 Subpart D | Boat Safe Horse Power | New Boatbuilders Home Page

Boat Building Regulations | Safe Horsepower For Outboard Boats

The second link notes the following - "The below formulas do not apply to: sailboats, canoes, kayaks, and inflatable boats, that are designed or intended to use one or more outboard motors for propulsion. It does not apply to boats that are true multihulls. A multihull makes two or more separate footprints in the water. A pontoon boat is a multihull."

Personally, if I had a 50hp and the max was 40, I think I'd find a new decal...
MRRiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 04:55 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
City: Saanich BC
Vessel Name: Therapi
Vessel Model: 1998 Bayliner 4087
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 162
Have a mishap that involves the ColRegs and you will find yourself charged likely with traveling too fast for conditions, then your insurance will find that your negligence was responding responsible for the mishap. Secondly engine hp is dictated by the mfg to ensure that their craft are stable and safe. Once again mfg liability is negated. Last point deals with load. Once again all craft so annotated are built to support, horizontally, the load so annotated. That includes the engine. So putting a large stat the stern if filled with H2O likely will result in a vertical position.
Cyclone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 05:14 PM   #8
Guru
 
cardude01's Avatar
 
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
Consequences of overpowering a dinghy?

Do it! [emoji51]

https://youtu.be/CXWPttkArh8
cardude01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 05:35 PM   #9
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,094
I have a Bullfrog 10'. The placard says 15 hp max. Bullfrog sells a version with a steering station and seat, the placard on it says 20 hp max. I enquired, they said the boats are identical, but the CG allows them to put a 20 hp placard on a boat with a wheel and seat. The steering wheel and seat can be installed or deinstalled with a couple of bolts.

So what's it based on? Not much, I'd say.....
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 05:37 PM   #10
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post

They don't need no stinkin' lawyers.....
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 05:41 PM   #11
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Vermont
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRRiley View Post
This seem to me to be kind of an overreach though a bit of web time found there is an actual performance test to determine max HP ratings.

33 CFR 183 Subpart D | Boat Safe Horse Power | New Boatbuilders Home Page

Boat Building Regulations | Safe Horsepower For Outboard Boats

The second link notes the following - "The below formulas do not apply to: sailboats, canoes, kayaks, and inflatable boats, that are designed or intended to use one or more outboard motors for propulsion. It does not apply to boats that are true multihulls. A multihull makes two or more separate footprints in the water. A pontoon boat is a multihull."

Personally, if I had a 50hp and the max was 40, I think I'd find a new decal...

The CFR is interesting, with one key distinction being a remote vs tiller steering. Makes me wonder if the ratings assume a tiller, and would be different for boats rigged with a console and remote steering....?
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 06:16 PM   #12
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,610
I think remote steering is significant because it moves the weight of the driver to the center of the boat.

Doesn't the registration contain information about the size and make of engine ? Would changing the engine void your registration ?
Benthic2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 06:22 PM   #13
Guru
 
Crusty Chief's Avatar
 
City: Pahrump, NV
Vessel Name: Pairadice
Vessel Model: Sold Selene 47
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,967
Just order the HP sticker you need and change it out on the engine. Pretty easy thing to do. A buddy of mine did this so he could travel up the Colorado below the Hoover Dam for fishing spots. Never got caught and he did catch a few big ones he hunts for. Just dont ask him, those damn fish have grown substantially over the years.
__________________
John & Tracey
Boatless
https://mvpairadice.blogspot.com/
Crusty Chief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 06:36 PM   #14
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW View Post
I have a Bullfrog 10'. The placard says 15 hp max. Bullfrog sells a version with a steering station and seat, the placard on it says 20 hp max. I enquired, they said the boats are identical, but the CG allows them to put a 20 hp placard on a boat with a wheel and seat. The steering wheel and seat can be installed or deinstalled with a couple of bolts.

So what's it based on? Not much, I'd say.....
Weight mid-ship is the difference and all recorded as part of their testing.

If you remove the weight, then you need to move to the lower HP.

If you don't then, you reconfigured the product they sold you, without reconfiguring the max hp. So now down to you.

Don't do it.
menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 07:16 PM   #15
Guru
 
City: Northport
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
Weight mid-ship is the difference and all recorded as part of their testing.

If you remove the weight, then you need to move to the lower HP.

If you don't then, you reconfigured the product they sold you, without reconfiguring the max hp. So now down to you.

Don't do it.
Yes - agreed. The rating is made based upon the stability of the boat and the loading with standard and max load. When the steering station is moved fwd the load is moved as well.
smitty477 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 07:19 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Flybull's Avatar
 
City: USA
Vessel Model: 1983 Trojan F44 FBMY
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 163
Thought I heard (or read) at some point that difference in HP rating for the steering station vs. tiller configuration is due to the inherent instability on a shorter platform should one lose grip on the tiller at higher throttle settings...

Anybody ever hear or read this?

I may have just dreamt it.
Flybull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 07:19 PM   #17
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,834
What is interesting to me is the negligible motor weight difference. Recently bought a new Suzuki outboard for my dinghy. With in the same model class they have 9.9, 15, and 20 HP. They all weigh the same when configured in the same way. Only difference is top end RPM as limited by the engine computer. So in essence, if you run the 20 HP at 300 or 400 RPM off wide open, you have a 15 HP, same weight, same RPM. Other than the engine decals, there's no apparent difference at that RPM.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 08:19 PM   #18
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybull View Post
Thought I heard (or read) at some point that difference in HP rating for the steering station vs. tiller configuration is due to the inherent instability on a shorter platform should one lose grip on the tiller at higher throttle settings...

Anybody ever hear or read this?

I may have just dreamt it.
Yes, I have......And experienced it in small craft many times
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 09:09 PM   #19
TF Site Team
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,663
As teens, long before anyone thought we should see regulations of this sort, "for our own safety", we did the small hydroplane thing. Some kids in a 10' platform got lots of hp, resulting in lots of speed, no stability, some spectacular flips. No issues with enforcement, insurance, what have you.
Simpler times.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 09:25 PM   #20
Guru
 
City: Alexandria, VA
Vessel Model: 2000 Wellcraft
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver View Post
As teens, long before anyone thought we should see regulations of this sort, "for our own safety", we did the small hydroplane thing. Some kids in a 10' platform got lots of hp, resulting in lots of speed, no stability, some spectacular flips. No issues with enforcement, insurance, what have you.
Simpler times.
We rode the rivers in our jonboats with outboards from ten years old on back in the day. Our parents would be in prison and us in foster homes today.
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012