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Old 04-24-2016, 08:40 AM   #41
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Regarding levels of boats:

I am not inclined to purchase "brand new" play toy items such as a pleasure boat... due to the fact of huge depreciation levels for first few years and because it is much easier for me to cash-out on a used play toy item. BTW - I'm firm believer that toy items like pleasure boats should not carry any loans upon them. MOF - we carry no debt on our houses, autos, boats or anything else (well... we do keep one small extended mortgage; i.e. $350 +/- per mo. for tax/credit reasons). That does not mean we have not invested heavily into business items (again with no debt lingering)... because we do and are proceeding toward fruition.


That said regarding general overview of how we run our financial life; boat purchase and ownership carries its own special criterion and set of rules in my [our] book. Such as:


1. Only purchase used and at good price - for cash!
2. Only purchase when immediately useable and in very good overall condition
3. Only purchase when both wife and I agree that we should purchase
4. Always have intent for fun with the boat and to have its ongoing costs remain minimal
5. Never think that there is any definite upside in value when reselling; but if that occurs - that is great! I have sold at profit a few times over the years... because I purchased right to begin with and have kept the boat in good condition.

Here is the most important rule for "used" boat buying in my book - Know What You Are Doing! I'm lucky in this regard due to fact that I was inside the boat world form birth. If a person is a newbie to boats then that person needs to read all they can about boats and rely heavily on marine surveyors... or close friends that may know a lot about boats - such as me. I've helped friends get into boating and have been pleased to act as their guide.

Happy Boat-Level Daze - Art
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Old 04-24-2016, 09:06 AM   #42
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I agree with Art. We have tend to by used, in good condition and price with the intent of keeping for a long time and maintain. Also we don't get to up set if damaged or we have to walk away. We take pride of owning and maintain old. Eagle 38 years old, we owned for 21 years, run about 42 year old, owned 39 years, land rover 12 years we owned for 6 years. We also shop thrift shores.

Both of our parents grew up in the depression and taught conservative values.
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Old 04-24-2016, 09:11 AM   #43
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If you want to save $2-300K buy a boat the current owner spent scandalous amounts of cash refurbishing/repowering. There out there but the trick is to not have feet of clay when you find one.

Also keep in mind the purchase price is nothing more than the ante to buy a seat at the table. Forget diesel fuel, boats run on cash.
yes, Yes, Yes. Or buy a newer boat.
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Old 04-24-2016, 10:07 AM   #44
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Give me a 3 year old boat with 500 hours on it. I will have little worries on a delivery run the same goes true for buying one.
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Old 04-24-2016, 10:17 AM   #45
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I think the projected # of years of ownership must come into the calculation - there can be substantial transaction costs on the higher value vessel. The contemplated boats in this thread are almost certainly going to be sold by a broker - that's 10%. And in WA state we have an (almost) 10% sales tax. Added to the depreciation of a new/newer boat, that's some significant money that will mean more to some people than others.

But if you are new to boating and buy the "wrong" boat for your use...that's going to be particularly painful.
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Old 04-24-2016, 10:24 AM   #46
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There are some other reasons for new(er) as evidenced by hundreds of TF posts such as:

- bad #6 cylinder on a Lehman
- old tired engines in general
- leaky windows
- blisters and bottom peels
- soft rotting decks
- corroded rudder posts
- fuel and water tanks that have failed
- failed exhaust system
- shaft tube failure
- appliances worn out
- instruments outdated or not functioning
- teak decks leak and need replacement
- old engines problematic due to lack of new parts
- plumbing shot
- last but not least, wrong anchor!

It seems to me to be a budgetary question, allotted time, fixer upper skills, and or desire to cruise vs work on projects.
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Old 04-24-2016, 11:55 AM   #47
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It seems to me to be a budgetary question, allotted time, fixer upper skills, and or desire to cruise vs work on projects.
When you're my age, that's exactly what it is!
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Old 04-24-2016, 11:56 AM   #48
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Sometimes the PO has the foresight to vest ownership in an LLC, so sales are easier and purchases are less costly in sales-tax-giddy states like WA.
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Old 04-24-2016, 12:06 PM   #49
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Bought a 2yo boat for 320K
did many upgrades and maintained well, looked good and everything worked. Could have used new carpet and blinds.
sold it 16 years later for 120k


the last buyer got the better deal
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Old 04-24-2016, 02:23 PM   #50
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Sometimes the PO has the foresight to vest ownership in an LLC, so sales are easier and purchases are less costly in sales-tax-giddy states like WA.
I'm considering doing that myself.
Down here, in San Diego, the LLC boats seem to be moving quite well!
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Old 04-24-2016, 07:23 PM   #51
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I'm considering doing that myself.
Down here, in San Diego, the LLC boats seem to be moving quite well!
Will you not have to pay tax again when you transfer to LLC ?
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Old 04-24-2016, 07:31 PM   #52
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Well said, klee wyck!
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Old 04-24-2016, 07:39 PM   #53
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Will you not have to pay tax again when you transfer to LLC ?
That could be a small price to pay considering the speed of sale when it comes time for Walt's next boat
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Old 04-24-2016, 07:49 PM   #54
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Survey. If you have a great hull, new engine and new current equipment for less, seems like a no brainer. Also depends how long you want to use it. If a long time, I go with the old hull and new equipment, you know what is in there and new engine, that's the bomb. If only using for a year or two, you loose your butt just based on what the future buyer can't finance because the hull is old and resale gives way less credit to new engines. Completely gets down to how you want to use the boat. 3 year used, get the newer. 10 year user, get the old and a new engine, less headaches, pay for your use with enjoyment. But as always, buy the hull for what you want to do! So important.
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Old 04-24-2016, 08:35 PM   #55
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MBevins-no you do not have to pay sales tax again when transferring a boat to an LLC. It is not a "sale" but a change in form of ownership. You transfer ownership to the LLC in return for ownership of the LLC. States do not consider this a sale and do not charge sales tax on the transaction.
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Old 04-24-2016, 09:08 PM   #56
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MBevins-no you do not have to pay sales tax again when transferring a boat to an LLC. It is not a "sale" but a change in form of ownership. You transfer ownership to the LLC in return for ownership of the LLC. States do not consider this a sale and do not charge sales tax on the transaction.
Does the LLC need to be in same state as boat registration is in?

Delaware is inexpensive to own an LLC. Approx. $100 per yr for service co and $300 per yr state use fee. No state income tax.
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Old 04-24-2016, 09:24 PM   #57
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WHAT'S AN LLC..?

Please don't assume everyone knows...this is a worldwide forum, remember...
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Old 04-24-2016, 09:27 PM   #58
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Marty's post # 37 and Art's post # 41 represent points of view that are similar to my opinions on the subject. We waited for the right boat and spent a lot of effort looking. Commissioning a new build would be out of the question for us. Marty points out that the cost of a KK44 would be several times higher than a KK42. There is a KK44 for sale in BC right now that is 4 times more than what we spent for our boat. While it's a very nice boat (I've been on it) such a purchase would be impossible. And yet aside from a few newer bits and bots, this KK44 would not add anything more to our boating pleasure: it's essentially a slightly larger version of the KK42, with not a lot more to add. And you face a faster depreciation.

My advice is to be patient and wait for a boat where the PO's have done major re-fits.


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Old 04-24-2016, 09:42 PM   #59
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WHAT'S AN LLC..?

Please don't assume everyone knows...this is a worldwide forum, remember...
Limited Liability Company

https://www.legalzoom.com/knowledge/...bility-company
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Old 04-24-2016, 10:01 PM   #60
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MBevins-no you do not have to pay sales tax again when transferring a boat to an LLC. It is not a "sale" but a change in form of ownership. You transfer ownership to the LLC in return for ownership of the LLC. States do not consider this a sale and do not charge sales tax on the transaction.
That makes sense !
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