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Old 07-25-2019, 11:54 PM   #21
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I really cannot think of a power boat in the $150k range that is open ocean capable, houses a compressor (big engine room) and suitable for single handed use. There are boats that can do that but i believe you would need to double or triple the budget. Maybe the sail boat would offer a better option?

I may have missed it in one of the treads but since you are focused on diving wouldn't you always have 2 or more? I would not be at all comfortable to be diving (even with a buddy by my side) in many remote areas with no one topside tending to the boat. Either the boat or the divers might drift and no hope of reuniting. What are your thoughts on that?
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Old 07-26-2019, 01:08 AM   #22
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I really cannot think of a power boat in the $150k range that is open ocean capable, houses a compressor (big engine room) and suitable for single handed use. There are boats that can do that but i believe you would need to double or triple the budget. Maybe the sail boat would offer a better option?

I may have missed it in one of the treads but since you are focused on diving wouldn't you always have 2 or more? I would not be at all comfortable to be diving (even with a buddy by my side) in many remote areas with no one topside tending to the boat. Either the boat or the divers might drift and no hope of reuniting. What are your thoughts on that?
Some of the previous suggestions have been pretty close to what I'm looking for so hopefully I won't have to triple my budget. As I said in my first post, a sailing option would introduce many other issues that would likely make it a no go for me.

Solo diving, remote boating and remote diving are certainly all full of risks that I'm not going to recommend that others pursue. I recognize that this isn't a diving forum so suffice to say 'there are old divers and bold divers but no old bold divers'. If interested search 'solo diving' on some of the appropriate forums and enjoy reading the passionate debate. 😁

Thanks. Mike
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Old 07-26-2019, 07:21 AM   #23
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Hi Mike and welcome. I spent many years in Cairns and have been to a lot of the places you are thinking of going.


My first though for a boat would be as you and others have indicated an ex commercial full or semi displacement hull. Don't be put of by semi displacement as some of the best powered cruising boats in the world are this type of hull.


Running higher powered engines at low power settings for range will in general have no ill effect contrary to what some will tell you. Many manufacturers do recommend a period of high power every so often i.e 80% or more power for 1 hour every 24 of running. I have run high powered diesels at 20% power or less for thousands of hours with these intermittent high power bursts.


Having little or no boating experience perhaps consider doing a few years of coastal cruising on the Australian east coast before setting off on the longer trips. Its a great cruising ground and would give you invaluable experience for some of your proposed trips which could be daunting for even some more experience boaties.


I believe the bleeding indicated early in this thread may refer to money. It's very easy to underestimate by a large margin how much a boat can cost. Some may say like a hole in the water into which your pour money.



Good luck with the project,


Brett
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Old 07-26-2019, 07:29 AM   #24
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Welcome GD,

Yous should have no problems finding a suitable boat for your needs.

I agree with other comments mentioning that many typical recreational "trawlers" wouldnt suit you needs. I'd go for an ex-trawler or fishing boat that some one else has spent a lot of money on to convert into what you need.

I'd also recommend some type of stabilization (sails, paravanes or active stabilizers) to be comfortable out in open water.

I don't know what your budget is but something like this may be suitable.

https://yachthub.com/list/boats-for-...cruiser/224157

Big deck area, low running costs with efficent Gardner diesel, sails to stabilize the rolling and back up propulsion, About 2000 nm cruise range
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Old 07-26-2019, 08:10 AM   #25
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Also, at what point in the learning process do you actually need a vessel? I understand the need for licensing and registration but is there more theory that is required before actually getting in a boat and start doing progressively more difficult tasks?

Thanks
I can't speak to what is available in your specific area, but some combination of coursework with theory and rules and hands on training either through formal courses or finding a willing captain who has a boat. Something to just get him started. We're not talking about a person who intends to do a little coastal cruising but one who intends to go far offshore and needs 2000 miles range for his activities. We're also not talking about someone coming from smaller boats or a different form of boating but someone who has zero experience in operating boats. Perhaps those of you from Australia can direct him toward resources.
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:05 AM   #26
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Fuel costs come to mind. Have you run any numbers on what it'd cost to get from one place to the next? If not, and you don't already have really deep pockets, you may be in for a rude awakening.

Sailing is more forgiving on that front, as you can get about with next to no fuel costs... but at the expensive of maintaining and operating a sailing vessel.
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Old 07-27-2019, 04:41 PM   #27
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Running higher powered engines at low power settings for range will in general have no ill effect contrary to what some will tell you. Many manufacturers do recommend a period of high power every so often i.e 80% or more power for 1 hour every 24 of running. I have run high powered diesels at 20% power or less for thousands of hours with these intermittent high power bursts.

Brett
Thats good to hear. Ive seem many large gensets become paperweights in short time when left to power a couple of light bulbs and an aircon. A regular burst of full power wouldnt be hard to schedule in.

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Fuel costs come to mind. Have you run any numbers on what it'd cost to get from one place to the next? If not, and you don't already have really deep pockets, you may be in for a rude awakening.

Sailing is more forgiving on that front, as you can get about with next to no fuel costs... but at the expensive of maintaining and operating a sailing vessel.
Who'se side are you on? I've almost got the Minister of Finance convinced that this will actualy save money.

On a serious note, 20,000nm over a few years at 10 litres/3 gal an hour and 7 knots is about AU$40k. Certainly not cheap but compare that to a 7 to 10 day remote liveaboard that can easily run $10 to 15k all up with flights etc. Even a week on a Komodo cattle boat with 1000 of my best friends is $5k. Of course, there are many other costs but we wont talk of those....

Im not ruling anything out at this stage but I see a pure sailing yacht as having a much longer learning curve for me where the inevitable learning mistakes and SNAFUs would have their own on costs. A power vessel also has the benefit of motoring in a much straighter line when required and less dependance on weather conditions. I've been to many dive sites where diving conditions are actually better underwater when surface condions are not ideal.

In reality none of this is financially justifiable but I see the smiles per dollar as being pretty high

Thanks, Mike
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Old 07-27-2019, 04:50 PM   #28
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On a serious note, 20,000nm over a few years at 10 litres/3 gal an hour and 7 knots is about AU$40k.
Ambitious I think in the price range and sized vessel you are looking at.
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Old 07-27-2019, 05:11 PM   #29
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Follow up questions

As more information and vessel options come to light, I've got a few questions on the details that I should be looking for.

Given that all are in good condition, would peoples' hull preferences be Fiberglass, steel, aluminium then wood in that order? I see FG as durable and easy to repair, steel as strong, easy to repair but subject to dissimilar metal and general corrosion, aluminium as corrosion resistant but prone to fatigue cracking that never really repairs/rewelds properly. I see wood as a money pit, needing constant maintenance and hard to source materials. There are some old ex navy vessels available that seem to fit the bill but with wooden hulls, should I avoid them?

Is there an age or operating hours after which boats deteriate rapidly? eg after 20 years houses often require new hot water heaters, kitchens and pumbing seemingly at the same time, cars seem to deteriate quickly after 250 to 300,000 kms etc. Is there a similar tipping point with boats? 7000 hours seems to be that point for land based generators, engines etc.

Some boats have many deck and roof levels. I'd prefer large flat cabin, cockpit and work areas. Similarly, I see boats with a large flat roof line offereing good tender, water toys and solar panel storage areas. How important are elevated lookouts, flybridges and the like? Are they most useful for fishermen to scan the horizon and manouver within tight marinas? I see the vast majority of my time at anchor, moored to a buoy or under steam.

Everyone's comments and thought are most welcome. Feel free to point out anythings that I may have missed.

Best Regards, Mike
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Old 07-27-2019, 05:17 PM   #30
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Ambitious I think in the price range and sized vessel you are looking at.
Most that advertise these numbers list 10 to 15 lph. Is this just marketing speak or is there another range you would suggest?

Cheers.
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Old 07-27-2019, 05:52 PM   #31
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I will toss my hat into the ring for ideas, I've had a little bit of experience with these ideas.

Zero Asia diving experience; only North America, so I have not had to deal with vast ocean travel to arrive at some very interesting, and demanding diving. I've also done very little diving, relatively, on others boats. But, I have done small team diving in various places including small islands, deep open water, in the jungles, etc. I'll split up the response by type of vessel.

Early in the game, I arranged to rent a 42' T Tub trawler to deliver some 6 cave divers about 140 miles out to destination. In that era, lots of doubles were involved. I brought two dive compressors, both gas and electric. Due to draft, we actually did zero diving off the 42'. We only used it for the long distance transport vehicle, meals, sleeping, and used instead skiffs and inflatables to actually bring divers to various sites; whether they were jungle, tidal creeks, or even open ocean. We recharged tanks with the electric 8kW trawler genset.

On my smaller sportfish, I started the use of my current Avon inflatable. At one point, I kept the compressor on the big boat, and ran 20 foot recharge hoses onto the small boat. Absolutely no need to bring tanks and gear on/off the big boat, until we pack and leave.

Much later, the transport vessel was various, but usually not directly transporting kitted up divers. We improved our technology of diving, using side mounts, on-site nitrox continuous blending methods, and even did some mix diving into around 100m depth cave sites. Compressors got a bit larger, but still gas powered, and most times was operated in the field, at the site of interest. I realize that the schemes here are really about diving both inland and close to island sites, not usually on seamounts, or barrier reefs, etc. Some exceptions, but all in all, precious few dives actually off of larger boats. We did an Andros trip by renting small aircraft and slept in the jungle. We used a couple of inflatables to dive the barrier reef. I suppose if you ever try to maneuver a larger boat around in water divers, this may make more sense. Also, scanning for shipwrecks (if you don't have the exact marks) via larger boat, is just a hassle. So much easier with a 12' rib with a bottom machine. And, anchoring large boats in deep water, etc. I much prefer entering a soft boat in seas, than a hard boat.

Anyway, I'm close to winding down my latest search for a dive barge. It will be a cat sailboat, with twin inboard diesels. Mostly, just my wife and I, but will have various types flying in from other places. It will have sub 1 meter draft. The dink will continue to be key. I have a 10' Avon now that has propelled me to my most technical diving, ever. 3000' cave penetrations at 100' avg depth, laying line and surveying out. You might be impressed by how many scooters, stage tanks, and misc stuff one can fit on a 16' Carolina skiff or 10' inflatable. Even so, many dives took a day of gear transport, before the actual dives.

I suppose all this is taken from the folks at spanish wells, and other Bahamian fishing techniques. You have a mother ship to sleep on and fix stuff on, but all the fishing is done from the parade of small boats, in tow. There have been times even a 10' rubber boat is way too big and too much draft.
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Old 07-27-2019, 06:02 PM   #32
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Generally speaking
If you can ping a 6lx powered 50 to 60 fter it'll get closer to 10lph
If you can't, if ex commercial, it'll likely have an 855 which will get closer to 15lph for that 7knotish speed.

From my extensive searching over the years,
Fiberglass in your size , price, range and comfort level for long distance live aboard cruiser is a unicorn unless stumping up near 4x your spend.
Aluminium is almost a unicorn and will likely have issues
Steel is possible but will likely have issues
Timber is very doable, may have issues so get it checked out.

On ours, to replicate the comfort level in fiberglass or steel would be seeing her closer to $1mill or more.
Then, I still need to find extra money to maintain and fuel her.

In timber, because of the far more affordable buy in, we have a lifetime of maintenance and fuel costs already banked.
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Old 07-27-2019, 07:36 PM   #33
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I will toss my hat into the ring for ideas, I've had a little bit of experience with these ideas.
Thanks Dave. As a reference point for the conditions I will be heading into draft will seldom be an issue for the wrecks and walls. Most sit in 30+m of water. The coral may be shallower but a 3 m draft wouldn't be an issue. In the few places that it will be, I'd agree that the dingy can be put to good use.

Rebreathers radically cut down on the number of cylinders that need to be carried and refilled for deeper or longer dives. A major saving on space and electrical power requirements. 3 hour run time dives at 60 to 100m are not uncommon with minimal gas requirements. This would be a literal truck load of cylinders on twins sets and stages.

I'd agree that its surprising how little space is required once one is organized. Its another benefit of having my own set up.

Safe travels. Mike
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Old 07-27-2019, 07:45 PM   #34
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In timber, because of the far more affordable buy in, we have a lifetime of maintenance and fuel costs already banked.
A valid point. Some of the navy vessels I mentioned are well, well short of $100k so the savings pay for a lot of diesel.

I'm still trying to get my head around what's nice to have vs must have. I've always been a fan of the 80/20 rule: 80% of the features wanted for 20% of the cost.

Thanks for your input. Mike
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Old 07-27-2019, 07:50 PM   #35
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GoneDiving, I don’t recall what your purchase budget was, but have considered a new build over in India or Vietnam or Pakistan, etc. ? If you can take 8+ months off to live there and supervise a new wood trawler build then you could do it affordably. Simple and basic, but heavy and seaworthy.
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Old 07-27-2019, 07:53 PM   #36
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Welcome GD....I don't know what your budget is but something like this may be suitable.

https://yachthub.com/list/boats-for-...cruiser/224157

Big deck area, low running costs with efficient Gardner diesel, sails to stabilize the rolling and back up propulsion, About 2000 Nm cruise range
Nice boat! Classic Queensland pleasure trawler. Tidahapah and Eagle might approve too.
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Old 07-27-2019, 08:03 PM   #37
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Thanks Mike for feedback. Certainly everyone has their own measure of risk. I just cannot invision diving alone combined with no one left onboard the boat.

I hope you can find a boat in your price range that fills the requirements of your mission. I looked at the links in your first post but from a quick scan they don't appear to be designed to make long passages on open ocean. You mentioned 2,000 nm I think? But I don't know those makes at all so perhaps they do indeed.

Anyway keep us updated as you continue your search.
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:58 PM   #38
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Nice boat! Classic Queensland pleasure trawler. Tidahapah and Eagle might approve too.
Great looking boat for sure.
90s build is the claim as well.
I'd hate to think what she actually owes the owner
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Old 07-27-2019, 11:03 PM   #39
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GoneDiving, I don’t recall what your purchase budget was, but have considered a new build over in India or Vietnam or Pakistan, etc. ? If you can take 8+ months off to live there and supervise a new wood trawler build then you could do it affordably. Simple and basic, but heavy and seaworthy.
Certainly worth investigation. Indonesia is nearby and I know my way around there pretty well. Those go anywhere, typically 200% overloaded, supported by little more than a quick prayer to Allah.

Cheers
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Old 07-27-2019, 11:25 PM   #40
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Consider looking for a trawler that can be used as for what you want to do. Everynow and then a nice one come up that would do what you want to do for a reasonable price


Pleasure Boats | Qld Fishing Brokerage

https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/d...-496542/?Cr=15

https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/d...6800135/?Cr=11

And this could be interesting if you have the skills to finish it off

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/nels...ct-/1145562893
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