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Old 05-21-2012, 11:37 AM   #1
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New way to air cond?

I have been trolling the web looking for a better air cond. setup for both my FL house and for our coach conversion.

The unit below is 120v and at its low power consumption (600W), folks with just a good 1200W inverter (and a way to make the DC) could have air cond underway.

No its not a "marine" unit so some care with the outside location would be required .

But they are sold in FL and the FL coast IS a marine enviroment.

The install would be minor , no thru hulls ,no water plumbing , no return ducts to plumb in and about 5X as much heat per KW as a resistance wire unit .

No shut down from a jelly fish in the seacock at O Dark 30 would be a real blessing!!!

For the noisemaker folks , it might cut the fuel burn considerably.

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FF



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Old 05-21-2012, 12:33 PM   #2
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I've been watching the new A/C offerings, including the rooftop Marine units designed (or so they say) for salt water areas. This unit looks appealing, and I know at least one boat with a similar unit done in a refit, but with no time on it and no way to judge its performance. At one boat unit, I don't know.....maybe it would be worth trying. If it lasted 4-5 years of cruising, it wouldn't be a disaster. Where would you mount the evaporator?
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:34 PM   #3
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The Eagle came with a roof top AC on the pilot house that is 15+ years old and still works. About 10 years ago, I installed 3 domestic window AC in the inside of the boat. One 8000 BTU AC in the salon and 6000 BTU AC in two of the staterooms. I make plywood enclosures stain to match the teak and butted the AC units up again a port hole/salon window. Each/unit is 8 to 10 amps AC.

I was not going to have through hulls and raw water flowing through the boat. The units cost a couple hundred bucks each at Lowes so they where cheap and easy to install. Turn them on in the morning to drop the boat temp, which keeps the boat about 70 degrees in 80 to 90 degree weather. During the winter we use them to help circulate ad clean/filter the air on fan mode.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:08 PM   #4
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"Where would you mount the evaporator?"

On the fly bridge , If I had one.

On LUCY the back of the pilot house would work, as with 15 ft to the stern rail, no sea spray hits there.

For us the heating COP of about 5 is of the most interest.

Most years we bail out of FL by May and don't return till Nov.

Not much air cond ever is used.

Heat (now done with resistance wire) is where the real money can be saved.

Tho I wouldn't mind tossing the huge duct work in the attic and gaining the evaporator space to use as a pantry.

On the larger boats we used to Zone with 3 or 4 Carrier condensers cooling a chilled water setup , that could be thermo -stated in each cabin or large space.

The big downside with this modern split setup is the errant drill bit getting a freon line , some time in the future.
On chilled water a patch of a hose clamp and piece of rubber works to stay operational..

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Old 05-21-2012, 04:04 PM   #5
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Did you see the part about the compressor being 208-230 volt?

Oops missed the data sheet further down. Not all are 208-203 volt.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:05 PM   #6
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I installed 4 of the Daikin systems in our houses in Fort Lauderdale last year. Three "twins" and a single for a total of 7 interior units.

We love them, they are quiet, heat well during the rare occasions heat is needed, and are very economical. They use very little power and the standby generator handles them easily so a blackout is of little consequence and we don't have to revert to window units like the folks with the big central units.

If you do the install yourself make sure you have very high quality tubing tools and a very good vacuum pump with electronic gauge.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:30 PM   #7
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I looked into the mitubishi mini splits about 3 or 4 months ago. The only thing holding me back is the fact that I have a 2.5 ton heat and air combo unit allready installed, ducted and ready to go....and oh yea, free. It's already there. the mini splits are great because one outside unit can run 3 or 4 inside units. The lowest power requirement is 900watts. If you go cool only you can use 110volts, 220 with the heatpump. If you do install keep us up to date if you have any trouble. Paul
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:44 AM   #8
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"If you do the install yourself make sure you have very high quality tubing tools and a very good vacuum pump with electronic gauge."

The newest units are sold pre charged , just like most boat ice box refrigeration conversions.

YES,, a proper tubing wrench to tighten the fittings is a great idea.

Have a feeling Metric tools will be required.

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Old 05-22-2012, 06:33 AM   #9
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The newest units are sold pre charged , just like most boat ice box refrigeration conversions.
The receiver holds the precharge. The evaporator and interconnecting tubing is not charged like the little marine units sold for owner installation.

You buy your own tubing but Daikin supplied the fittings. Since I was installing so many units I bit the bullet and bought a new vacuum pump and micron gauge and the best hand flaring tool Johnstone Supply had. Considering the cost to have the systems installed by a contractor the cost of the new stuff was pocket change and after reading the horror stories about installations gone bad, I wasn't going to take any chances.

You have to evacuate the tubing and the evaporator unit properly or you will have no end of problems with moisture and air. These are high pressure, sophisticated units that don't hold a large charge and require a higher degree of care than the old style a/c units.

The tubing on the Daikins is 1/4 and 3/8 so takes a 15/16 and a 1-1/16 tubing wrench. It is difficult to overstress how important it is to use quality tools and do the best work you have ever done on tubing flares or you will have problems.

Let me know if you go ahead with the project, I will loan you the pump and gauges as it is not worth buying for just one unit.
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:52 AM   #10
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"I will loan you the pump and gauges as it is not worth buying for just one unit."

Great , usually I get by with a compressor lifted from an old fridge to pump down.

Add some gas , and pump down again a couple of times works for most boat stuff I see.

Any moisture I dont get is trapped with a T flow dryer,.

Usually no problem.

"after reading the horror stories about installations gone bad, I wasn't going to take any chances."

Home Power mag where I was introduced to the concept found almost NO "pro" installation produced the proper results .

These guys are always in a hurry , and always know far more than the folks that simply built the units.

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Old 05-22-2012, 04:34 PM   #11
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What ever is installed the main issue is where to install it. The problem with a boat is most surfaces are seen and used even the roof. With the mini split you would still have an outside unit to install someplace with a hole to connect the two. For some installation having two separate units, inside and out side, could be an advantage.

Did look at the portable AC unit for the salon and vent hot air outside through a salon window. Wanted units small enough to be taken down/portable, not permanent, so the window/port hole could be closed and no new holes in the hull/roof. With the teak stained enclosure that are on top of cloths closets they are hardly noticeable. The boat has to be closed up for the rain/cold 9 to 10 months per year. I would have preferred the roof AC on the pilot house roof not be permanent as its a hole in the roof and in the winter have to secure a tarp around otherwise the cold wind blows though it. You can still fee the draft.

However having a split unit would help in some installations.
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