New to the trawler world

[Peter Pan]

After enjoying all types of boating for nearly 50 years, I think our next step is to enter the trawler world.
My wife and I have been looking into the used market and so far we like the Grand Banks 55 and 59 Aleutians, and also like the Marlow 57.
They all cost about the same and same general accommodations.
My question is, which is a better boat? Marlow or Grand Banks, considering this size range.
I know this is not an easy question, and different people look for different things, but a good boat is a good boat.
Which is built with better quality materials and accessories? Which behaves better in rough weather?
I hope somebody can shed some light to help us decide.
Thanks

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. Condition, condition, condition. Not really dependent on make, to any great extent. Find the one you like, get a good survey and post lots of pictures when you get it please.

 

[Comodave]

All of thise are good boats. I would first look at what best meets your needs, then look at condition. One of the absolute criteria for us is loose furniture instead of built in seating. We both have back issues and prefer recliners for seating long term. When looking at a boat, you sit down for a few minutes and built in seating feels ok, but after two hours does it still feel good? Make a list of things that are important to you then look at the boats and see which one works for you.

 

[GregBrannon]

Welcome, and good luck with your search and eventual purchase!

 

[Peter Pan]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. Condition, condition, condition. Not really dependent on make, to any great extent. Find the one you like, get a good survey and post lots of pictures when you get it please.

Hello Firefly,
Appreciate your input. Yes, I will make sure a full survey is done and do my homework as complete as I can.
Once the decision is made, I’ll send many pictures hoping to see you on the water sometime.
Peter

 

[dirtdoc1]

Hey Peter,

Welcome! I think you will be able to do just about whatever you want with those boats. I don't know about crossing oceans but running from Mexico to Alaska would be totally doable. You might want to look at Fleming too.

If you want to cross oceans Kadey-Krogen or Nordhavn will do it.

Best of luck and have fun!

Cheers,

 

[Peter Pan]

Hey Peter,

Welcome! I think you will be able to do just about whatever you want with those boats. I don't know about crossing oceans but running from Mexico to Alaska would be totally doable. You might want to look at Fleming too.

If you want to cross oceans Kadey-Krogen or Nordhavn will do it.

Best of luck and have fun!

Cheers,

Well thank you for your advice dirtdoc1.
Somehow I see a trend about everybody’s opinion. They are all welcomed and help me make up my mind.
I believe I will be doing more costal cruising than ocean crossing. Also, my wife likes all the amenities and comfort that the above boats provide.
You are correct, Fleming May be an option.
Also, we like the idea of being able to go at semi displacement speeds if there is the need (bad weather or an emergency).
We’ll do our due diligence and see what comes out.
Thanks once again
Peter

 

[Bradenvlp]

These are both great options in my opinion. I own a GB and drool over the Alutian series but have become very impressed with Marlow. A good friend bought an older Marlow in the last year and has received very good support from the factory on questions etc. Fleming, as mentioned, should be on your list. I think Offshore makes a very good boat in this category.

 

[Crusty Chief]

Welcome Peter,
Fine boats for your initial selection, you cant go wrong with either. As mentioned above do your homework and think about accessibility on and off the boat. Thrusters are a must if you and the wife will handle alone.
Oh, and study up on anchors, you’ll need to defend your choice with this crowd!
Heading your direction this year, maybe see ya and have a few Cervasa’s!
Cheers

 

[dirtdoc1]

Might want to take a look at Outer Reef. They are beautiful.

 

[Mako]

I believe I will be doing more costal cruising than ocean crossing. Also, my wife likes all the amenities and comfort that the above boats provide.... Also, we like the idea of being able to go at semi displacement speeds if there is the need (bad weather or an emergency).

Look carefully into the price you would pay for driving a big boat at higher speeds. And if most of your time will be spent at economical "trawler" speeds (say 7-8 knots) then make sure the fire breathing dragons in those boats can run at those slow speeds for long periods without damage. Example, running at 15% power for 23hrs a day, then expecting to clean them out with 1 hr of high load, may still not be a recommended practice.

You sound like an experienced sailor so you probably know to focus on the systems and engineering first, and not on the pretty finishes.

 

[menzies]

Welcome

We went on two Marlow 53Es at the Miami show last month. Very impressed and really tempted.

In fact here is an example of how small a world it is. We noticed one of the Marlows had Atlantic Beach on the transom, which is just down the road from us. A week after the show we were up at out country club, which us right by our marina. We met the guys who own that Marlow at the bar! They are considering moving into our marina!

We had s long chat about the boat, why they went with that particular model, the customizations they did (which were substantial), and what their plans were.

You won't go wrong with the Marlow. Well built, well equipped and well supported. It can cruise at 17kts but will suck diesel, however my wife likes the thought of being able to do that given some of the nasty open water crossings we have had recently!

 

[Peter Pan]

Well, thanks for the advice to all of you.
Yes, I would like to have some cerveza with you all whenever we meet. Hope to see you soon on the water.
It has been quite a hassle to get an answer on the Marlow that’s on the market. They just won’t answer. I sent a broker to look her up and we’ll see how it goes.
The more viable option now are the 59’ GB.
We’re planning on visiting them next week.
By the way, taking advantage of all your knowledge, my son in law has a 2003 Grand Banks Europa 46’. He says his boat rocks and rolls too much for comfort and wants to install stabilizers. Any advice on type and brand? Thanks in advance.

 

[Peter Pan]

Dear Makobuilders,
You are quite right.
I am fully aware of the fuel consumption at higher speeds and like the ability to get where we want to go quickly if there is the need.
I will have to look deeply into your comment about long term low speed cruising with the power plants.
Any advice on it?
Best regards.
Peter

 

[Peter Pan]

Dirtdoc1,
You are right. Outer Reef are beautiful. I hadn’t seen them before.
I’ll add them to my list.
I see they come with John Deere engines which are not very popular where I live.
If I could choose, I would go with Caterpillar. They have great service and parts in our region.

 

[North Baltic sea]

Dear Makobuilders,
You are quite right.
I am fully aware of the fuel consumption at higher speeds and like the ability to get where we want to go quickly if there is the need.
I will have to look deeply into your comment about long term low speed cruising with the power plants.
Any advice on it?
Best regards.
Peter

Hi, welcome to TF.

The solution to low load drive is commonrail diesel, they can adjust very precisely the fuel supply and avoid carbon and glazing. I actually asked me a direct manufacturer Cummins QSB 5.9 380hp, the answer below ...

Cummins say

"This is fine for our engines. It is not suggested to Idle (650-750rpm) for long periods. Generally speaking, you can idle for about 20 minutes or so at this range and be okay. If you plan to idle longer than 20 minutes or so it is suggested that you ramp up your RPM to about 800-1000. Working the engine under a light load/rpm is fine. This is not uncommon for some our engines (like Generators which normally work at 1800 RPM or less) and will not cause any undue harm.
Thank you for contacting Cummins.
Katelyn
Customer Care Representative"

And my question

"Hi,

I have a Cummins 5.9 qsb marine engine 2009 and it reaches max rmp 3065 which is perfect my Nordic Tug 37.

I have read a lot of conflicting opinions on the engine to run at low rmp a long time, because the machine may damage the carbon and etc. Some say it's ok to run this type engine at low rmp if the coolant remains in the correct slot.

The time i run my engine is most often 850-1300 rpm since the boat is most economical in this rmp area and temperature is ok. Cummins runs fine and does not smoke any, exhaust pipe mouth environment does not show any black carbon.

What is the manufacturer's view of low load low rmp almost always, whether it is ok or damaging the engine?

It would be great to have an expert answer, all the web instead of rumors.

Best regards"



I hope this will bring you the perspective of your thoughts.

NBs

 

[Peter Pan]

Dear North Baltic Sea,
Thank you for sharing.
I will consider this answer always. It clears a lot of misconceptions about low load/low RPM and carbon buildup.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[Mako]

NBS that is a similar answer that I received from AgoSisu, but that is specifically to common rail electronically controlled engines. Not to mechanical old school ones.

 

[North Baltic sea]

NBS that is a similar answer that I received from AgoSisu, but that is specifically to common rail electronically controlled engines. Not to mechanical old school ones.

Hi, That's right, just common rail engines, thank you for building this up.

NBs

 

[sledge]

By the way, taking advantage of all your knowledge, my son in law has a 2003 Grand Banks Europa 46’. He says his boat rocks and rolls too much for comfort and wants to install stabilizers. Any advice on type and brand? Thanks in advance.

Peter, not sure you got an answer on stabilizers. There's a handful of options:
1. Active fin stabilization
2. Newer internal Gyro systems
3. Paravanes
4. Lesser used; Bilge Keels


The boats you're looking at are most likely to have # 1 if they have anything.
Paravanes are simple with no power required, but have substantial rigging and structure that impacts air draft; not usually seen on something like a Fleming.
Active fins work when the boat is moving but not at anchor. Both fins and bilge keels add a bit of drag but not much.

Gyros are becoming very popular because there's no external fins or parts that can be knocked off by logs or other heavy debris and therefore no drag. However they do require electric power and take several minutes to warm up to speed. So for example if you were at anchor in an active bay and wanted to turn on your gyro, you'd likely have to start your generator to supply the gyro.

The well known gyro supplier is SeaKeeper but a lesser know up and coming competitor is "QuickNautical".
Sadly i cant tell you which is better as my trawler is semi-displacement and has no stabilization.... but there are plenty of captains on this forum who can chime in, or you might search the forum on this topic as it has been discussed in the past.

 

[Mako]

Gyros are becoming very popular because there's no external fins or parts that can be knocked off by logs or other heavy debris and therefore no drag. However they do require electric power and take several minutes to warm up to speed. So for example if you were at anchor in an active bay and wanted to turn on your gyro, you'd likely have to start your generator to supply the gyro.

There was another thread recently where gyros were discussed in some detail. I recall that they need about 3-5 kWhr to spool up, but after up to speed (about 30 minutes) then they only needed about 1-1.5. This sized for a typical 40ft trawler. So you would need a generator to start it up, but once underway at sea, an engine driven alternator/inverter system could power it.

And that opens up the opportunity to drive it via a large battery bank while anchored, which a lot of people underestimate the need for roll reduction during. Your heavy trawler can carry 12 hours worth of battery storage, then just fire up the genset in the morning. (Uh oh, here comes another battle on batteries, to be followed by anchors and single/twins )

Anyway, once you figure out your needs and your budget, there is alot to choose from these days.

 

[Juggerknot]

Well, thanks for the advice to all of you.
Yes, I would like to have some cerveza with you all whenever we meet. Hope to see you soon on the water.
It has been quite a hassle to get an answer on the Marlow that’s on the market. They just won’t answer. I sent a broker to look her up and we’ll see how it goes.
The more viable option now are the 59’ GB.
We’re planning on visiting them next week.
By the way, taking advantage of all your knowledge, my son in law has a 2003 Grand Banks Europa 46’. He says his boat rocks and rolls too much for comfort and wants to install stabilizers. Any advice on type and brand? Thanks in advance.

Bienvenido Peter,

Naiad stabilizers are well regarded, google it, plenty of youtube videos etc.
Plenty of other stabilizers both active and passive on the market as well. You know the Palm Beach boat show is this weekend, not as grand as Lauderdale or Miami but still quite respectable with lots of boats to lay hands on!

Con gusto

 

[OldDan1943]

IF it is not too late, consider the American Tug 43
The 43 has 2 staterooms.
The 36 is great for 2 people and the occasional guests.
The down side of the 36 is the small hanging closet space.
Everything else can be over come with a few more custom cabinets and the under the forward berth access for storage.

 

[sledge]

IF it is not too late, consider the American Tug 43
The 43 has 2 staterooms.
The 36 is great for 2 people and the occasional guests.
The down side of the 36 is the small hanging closet space.
Everything else can be over come with a few more custom cabinets and the under the forward berth access for storage.

Seems like this guy is looking at bigger boats in the 55' range... but you're right, he might really enjoy an American Tug 48. they have so much beam, the interior room is incredible. Only problem is finding one; they're pretty rare on the market....

 

[OldDan1943]

Seems like this guy is looking at bigger boats in the 55' range... but you're right, he might really enjoy an American Tug 48. they have so much beam, the interior room is incredible. Only problem is finding one; they're pretty rare on the market....

Here are two. One w/o a fly bridge and one with.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2014/american-tug-485-hull-02-3490171/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2015/american-tug-485-flybridge-3165484/

So you see, the 48 can be found....

 

[RickyD]

I have Naiads on my 55 and they work great. The hydraulic pump runs off of the port engine. Then at anchor we use two "Rocker-Stoppers" to help. They do make a difference but not as effective as a gyro but they require no power. I'd like to suspend them off on a pole to get leverage. A project for another year.

 

[Peter Pan]

Hi Juggerknot,
Well, thank you for your comments. I am convinced that stabilizers are a MUST on these type boats to avoid or to lessen the uncomfortable rolling motion.
I have asked for a quote on them already.
Have a nice weekend
P Pan

 

[Peter Pan]

RickyD,
Never heard of the Rocker Stoppers before. I looked them up and understand that with more leverage they would work better.
NAIAD stabilizers seem the way to go. Everyone seems to agree with that. No more looking around then.
Appreciate your comment and advice.
Enjoy your weekend.
Peter

 

[Peter Pan]

Thanks OldDan1943 and Sledge.
I will look them up. There’s still some time available.
I need to sell my sport fishing boat first. Don’t want to own two boats!!
If all goes well I may become part of your trawler gang by the summer.
Have a great weekend.
P Pan

 

[Salish Nomad]

IF it is not too late, consider the American Tug 43
The 43 has 2 staterooms.
The 36 is great for 2 people and the occasional guests.
The down side of the 36 is the small hanging closet space.
Everything else can be over come with a few more custom cabinets and the under the forward berth access for storage.

The AT 43 is an excellent boat.