Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-27-2016, 08:52 AM   #41
Guru
 
Bigsfish's Avatar
 
City: Miami River
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Gotcha
Vessel Model: Grand Banks. Heritage. 43
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 747
I should have added to my previous post that the repair on the Vertifrigo freezer was over $300.00 after two years old, I could have bought a new freezer from a discounter for about the same price or less. It won't be repaired again.
__________________
Advertisement

Bigsfish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2016, 10:24 AM   #42
FOG
Senior Member
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: DreamQuest
Vessel Model: Prairie 36
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna View Post
Aww c'mon guys! Blushing here.

I just get pride out of doing things myself.
Congrats to you.

I like the fact that you not only DIY but also hire out when needed and have a reserve for that occasion.

Drawing that line is different for everyone, which is pretty obvious when reading posts in this Forum.

I humped the old fridge off my boat and I'm NOT humping the new one back on without some help. At 66 my line has moved around quite bit over the years.
__________________

FOG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2016, 10:49 AM   #43
Senior Member
 
foggysail's Avatar
 
City: Ashland
Country: United States
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 442
For those considering to use an EBay inverter with a fridge, I want to share my experience. First, there is no bigger bank for your buck than those inexpensive inverters. I paid around $500 for a kilowatt Xantrex POS sine wave unit which I later toasted by putting too much load onto it. I don't recommend Xantrex products.

So I purchased a 2/4 KW true sine wave unit at Ebay for under $200 which has its own peculiarities. My unit is advertised as "inverter for vehicle use" or similar words. Heck, an inverter is an inverter so I installed it and to my surprise, it caused an AC circuit breaker in the load center to trip.

These inverters work just fine IF THEY ARE ISOLATED from the normal AC grounded conductor....the white wire on most AC circuits. So if you decide to use one of these far less expensive inverters, you must isolate the inverter's AC output from your boat's AC neutral, grounded (whatever you wish to call it) conductor.

An easy way to do this is to just run your fridge from the inverter 24/7.
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2016, 11:38 AM   #44
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,253
ah....not necessarily.

have had no problems with my last 2 cheapo inverters..

last one I just plugged my shore power into, the new one is hard wired into my main panel.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 05:33 AM   #45
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,601
"These inverters work just fine IF THEY ARE ISOLATED from the normal AC grounded conductor....the white wire on most AC circuits."

ALL Power is grounded at its SOURCE the dock power pole , the noisemaker or the inverter .

WE have a $200 truck unit that runs 1500w and does everything asked .

One needs to spend big bucks for a sine wave unit for big induction (motor) loads.

Scuba compressor , water maker or air cond requires sine wave , most of the rest does not.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 09:12 AM   #46
Senior Member
 
foggysail's Avatar
 
City: Ashland
Country: United States
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
One needs to spend big bucks for a sine wave unit for big induction (motor) loads.

Scuba compressor , water maker or air cond requires sine wave , most of the rest does not.

Well bucks yes, but big?

Brand New Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter 1500 3000 Watt 12V DC to 120V AC | eBay


has a current bid of $102 with about an hour to run in the auction. A 2000-4000 watt true sine wave 12v/120vac frequently auctions in the $170-180 range.

Yes, a pseudo sine wave inverter which sell for less than a true sine wave inverter will run many small motors. But often times the motors will be louder than with a true sine wave. I prefer the true sine wave output for the few additional bucks.
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 09:57 AM   #47
Guru
 
Mule's Avatar
 
City: Fort Pierce
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Florita Ann
Vessel Model: 1982 Present
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,691
Sine wave vs square or modified sine wave.

Imagine moving a load using repeated blows from a sledge hammer. Each strike will move it...that is a square wave. Modified sine wave, just speed up the frequency of the strikes. Same principle but faster, smoother.

Now imagine a rope secured to the same load wrapped around a smooth turning winch, moving the load at an even speed, no surge, no blows, just evenly applied torque. That is pure sine wave.

There is your difference.

Electric motors, electronics, microwave ovens and so forth need pure sine wave or they will not function as expected and likely have a shortened life, as a general rule. Resistive circuits, like your toaster oven it matters not, square or pure.
Mule is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 11:44 PM   #48
Veteran Member
 
SHASA III's Avatar
 
City: Yarrow Bay, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SHASA III
Vessel Model: Transworld 40 Sundeck
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 65
The grounded conductor is the Green wire. The Neutral (White) wire is connected to ground only at the AC source; if the boat is on shore power, that point is on the dock; if you're using an Inverter, the Green and White wires are connected at the Inverter output (only), and are isolated from the shore feed.

Not sure if that's what you're trying to say?


Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail View Post

These inverters work just fine IF THEY ARE ISOLATED from the normal AC grounded conductor....the white wire on most AC circuits. So if you decide to use one of these far less expensive inverters, you must isolate the inverter's AC output from your boat's AC neutral, grounded (whatever you wish to call it) conductor.

An easy way to do this is to just run your fridge from the inverter 24/7.
__________________
Cheers, Vic
SHASA III - Transworld 40 Sundeck Tri-cabin
SHASA III is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2016, 08:31 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
foggysail's Avatar
 
City: Ashland
Country: United States
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHASA III View Post
The grounded conductor is the Green wire. The Neutral (White) wire is connected to ground only at the AC source; if the boat is on shore power, that point is on the dock; if you're using an Inverter, the Green and White wires are connected at the Inverter output (only), and are isolated from the shore feed.

Not sure if that's what you're trying to say?

Vic--

Google the NEC's (National Electric Code) definition. The grounded conductor carries the load current, it is the so called neutral conductor or in single phase wiring the white wire. The grounding conductor is the green wire that bonds the equipment at the load to so called earth ground at the load center. The white wire, grounded conductor also connects to the earth ground at the load center.

Yes.... things were easier before this terminology became prevalent.
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2016, 10:58 AM   #50
Veteran Member
 
SHASA III's Avatar
 
City: Yarrow Bay, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SHASA III
Vessel Model: Transworld 40 Sundeck
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 65
Yeah, I agree -- the terminologies can be confusing.

I understand that the neutral (white) wire carries the full AC load current -- in homes, it is frequently connected to ground at numerous places, through appliances, etc. No big deal in the home. The safety wire (green) should never carry the full load current.

On a boat, however, it becomes critical, and the ABYC gets more specific. Connecting the neutral to the ground at any point other than the source can have lethal consequences. Cheap appliances on a boat are one of the culprits, along with wiring faults.

At our yacht club, we do annual tests of every boat, for stray currents and proper grounding. Unlike in a home, electrical current and water can be a potent mix.

Cheers



Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
Vic--

Google the NEC's (National Electric Code) definition. The grounded conductor carries the load current, it is the so called neutral conductor or in single phase wiring the white wire. The grounding conductor is the green wire that bonds the equipment at the load to so called earth ground at the load center. The white wire, grounded conductor also connects to the earth ground at the load center.

Yes.... things were easier before this terminology became prevalent.
__________________

__________________
Cheers, Vic
SHASA III - Transworld 40 Sundeck Tri-cabin
SHASA III is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012