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Old 03-26-2016, 02:05 AM   #41
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I had a 2006 Yamaha 9.9 on my Avon RIB. It was the MOST unreliable OB I have ever owned. In the shop at least twice a year to get the carb cleaned or rebuilt. Finally, a whole new carb. That's absolute BS. As it turns out, this model is well known for being hard to start due to the miniscule jets and passages in the carb.

As it turns out, I had an almost unused 1996 Evinrude Yachtwin 9.9 electric-start 2-stroke in storage, but it had a 20" shaft so I bought a standard 15" shaft, shift rod and a new water pump and shortened it. After 4 years in storage, it started on the second pull. Then I connected the battery, it started instantly. It's 20 lb lighter and I am much happier. I really like the electric start too. I use a small lawnmower battery for starting. The Avon is somewhat faster too, especially getting on plane.

In all fairness to Yamaha, apparently I just didn't use it often enough. Ethanol strikes again! I'm sure if I had used it weekly, or even monthly I would have experienced many fewer problems. The larger Yammy's do not have this problem, just the 9.9 and 15 apparently.

I think small, carbureted 4-stroke outboards leave a lot to be desired. They just can't compete with 2-strokes. I have heard that some of these smaller motors have, or will soon have fuel injection which should solve the reliability issue.
Two comments. First, I think there's a lot of change in those engines in the last ten years. I still don't know if that would address the problems you encountered but not at all surprised about the issues in 2006. Second, ethanol. Is non-ethanol not available in your area? I ask simply because I know it isn't in some areas, but here is South Florida we have no problem getting ethanol free gas. I'm not aware of any marina in South Florida that sells gas with ethanol.
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Old 03-26-2016, 04:06 AM   #42
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In BC the only non-ethanol gas I have heard of is
Chevron supreme (94 octane?)

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Old 03-26-2016, 08:27 AM   #43
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In NJ all gas is ethanol. We're switching from a carbureted 40hp outboard to a fuel injected one. Maybe the change will make the ethanol issue a bit less of a hassle. It was a good deal, actually I ended up selling the old engine for the cost of the new one. Gotta love that deal!
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Old 03-26-2016, 09:55 AM   #44
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Let's compare.

Pluses for 4 stroke

Quieter
Run smoother and idle smoother
Run well at slow speeds
No mixing gas and oil
Less pollution
Reliable
The Future

2 strokes

Lighter
Better acceleration
More people knowledgeable in repair although that is rapidly changing
More torque at same HP.

I will say this. In larger HP outboards, 4 strokes have been accepted much better than in smaller units. The overall performance and dependability is considered, by most knowledgeable people I've talked to, to be an improvement.

The big opposition to four strokes has come under 50 HP and especially under 20 HP. I think two reasons. Weight and low end torque. They don't plane a dinghy as well. Second, is that a lot of small outboard users are either DIY or use mechanics who are not part of a large yard and not going to school regularly. So, both are much more comfortable with the old that they know well.

I would also say that the four strokes today are much better than those when they were introduced. Two strokes had a 70 year or more head start, but as time passes the refinements and changes needed on the four strokes are taking place.
Sounds like Windows 10 - Wait to purchase till after they get the bugggs worked out! - LOL
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Old 03-26-2016, 09:56 AM   #45
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I have had lots of little two strokes, and a few four strokes in the 10hp class. Strongly prefer the two's in this size. The weight, bulky size, vibration, tough pull starting and finicky carbs of the fours make them undesireable.

They need to go to tiny three cyl with efi to get me to like them, and if they did that the cost would be too high.

EPA should allow two strokes in this class.
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Old 03-26-2016, 10:13 AM   #46
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I had a 2006 Yamaha 9.9 on my Avon RIB. It was the MOST unreliable OB I have ever owned. In the shop at least twice a year to get the carb cleaned or rebuilt. Finally, a whole new carb. That's absolute BS. As it turns out, this model is well known for being hard to start due to the miniscule jets and passages in the carb.

As it turns out, I had an almost unused 1996 Evinrude Yachtwin 9.9 electric-start 2-stroke in storage, but it had a 20" shaft so I bought a standard 15" shaft, shift rod and a new water pump and shortened it. After 4 years in storage, it started on the second pull. Then I connected the battery, it started instantly. It's 20 lb lighter and I am much happier. I really like the electric start too. I use a small lawnmower battery for starting. The Avon is somewhat faster too, especially getting on plane.

In all fairness to Yamaha, apparently I just didn't use it often enough. Ethanol strikes again! I'm sure if I had used it weekly, or even monthly I would have experienced many fewer problems. The larger Yammy's do not have this problem, just the 9.9 and 15 apparently.

I think small, carbureted 4-stroke outboards leave a lot to be desired. They just can't compete with 2-strokes. I have heard that some of these smaller motors have, or will soon have fuel injection which should solve the reliability issue.
Soltron: Reduces separation, incorporates water into fuel and keeps microbes at bay. Soltron - The enzyme fuel treatment for diesel and petrol engines

B-12 Chemtool: Makes fuel lines sparkling clean and improves gasoline combustion .
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Old 03-26-2016, 10:30 AM   #47
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BandB

For some reason, there is almost no ethanol-free gas available near me, only E10. Many refineries though . . go figure!

I found one speed shop 40 miles away that sells it as 'racing' gas at about $7/gal. You are fortunate to have it available in Florida.



Ski

Absolutely right, the EPA should allow small 2-stroke outboards.
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Old 03-26-2016, 10:55 AM   #48
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I have a brand new (as of Father's Day last year) 20 hp Yamaha 4 stroke. It vibrates so bad it will rattle your teeth. It has less than an hour on it. Yamaha says it is within specifications. We are still discussing how to resolve. OTOH I have my dad's 1967 18 hp Evinrude in storage that was still running great when I put it several years ago. I wouldn't buy a small Yamaha 4 stroke at half of retail. BTW I have owned just about every make of outboard at some time including the old Chryslers.
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Old 03-26-2016, 10:58 AM   #49
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BandB

For some reason, there is almost no ethanol-free gas available near me, only E10. Many refineries though . . go figure!

I found one speed shop 40 miles away that sells it as 'racing' gas at about $7/gal. You are fortunate to have it available in Florida.



Skii

Absolutely right, the EPA should allow small 2-stroke outboards.

Avgas is free from ethanol, try your local airfield.
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:04 AM   #50
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Avgas is free from ethanol, try your local airfield.
Good call, there is an FBO just a couple of miles away. Thanks!
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:13 AM   #51
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Sounds like Windows 10 - Wait to purchase till after they get the bugggs worked out! - LOL
Sounds like most any new product or technology.
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:14 AM   #52
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BandB

For some reason, there is almost no ethanol-free gas available near me, only E10. Many refineries though . . go figure!

I found one speed shop 40 miles away that sells it as 'racing' gas at about $7/gal. You are fortunate to have it available in Florida.



Ski

Absolutely right, the EPA should allow small 2-stroke outboards.
I know we're lucky around here. Almost all gas on the water is ethanol free.
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:38 AM   #53
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I know we're lucky around here. Almost all gas on the water is ethanol free.

Wonder if it's available in bulk? As we buy Rec 90 for our shop. We switched over awhile ago and haven't looked back, the little discrepancy in price worth it, as all our trucks and toys get filled for there.

That really sucks if it's not even available commercially.
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Old 03-26-2016, 12:17 PM   #54
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Good call, there is an FBO just a couple of miles away. Thanks!
Isn't that bit o' pia - haven to drive to airport and then transport gas??

See my post # 46. I have no problem with ethanol in gas.
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Old 03-26-2016, 01:24 PM   #55
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Isn't that bit o' pia - haven to drive to airport and then transport gas??

See my post # 46. I have no problem with ethanol in gas.
Art,

I've successfully used Sea Foam, B-12 and more recently Mercury Quickstor for years on small engines. I tried them all on that Yamaha, but to no avail.

The RIB is my only water toy that still uses gasoline, and now, with the Evinrude, my ethanol problems are likely over. It still might be a good idea to use ethanol-free gas, and 5 gallons will last me a long time. I fly out of that airport at least twice a week, so in my case, no problem. We'll see
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Old 03-26-2016, 01:34 PM   #56
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Our gas engines are all recent and are all fine with E 10
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Old 03-28-2016, 09:19 AM   #57
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I love old two strokes too. Had a lot of great memories, jon boating as a little kid with my trusty Merc 7.5, waterskiing all summer during high school behind my beloved Glastron with Merc 65, fishing and diving in the 80s off of my Mako 21 with 200 Yammy... Heck, even the Great Harbour charter chase boat was a 15' Mirage with 50hp Yamaha two-stroke. There are a lot of benefits to the light weight, simplicity and ruggedness of a vintage two-stroke. In fact, about a year ago, I GAVE my 1985 Suzuki 8hp to some young friends here at the marina to push their little RIB dink along. I had not started the engine since 1997. It started on the second pull and still runs perfectly.

However. That outboard - and a Mariner 15 on another couple's RIB are the only two-strokes in our liveaboard dinghy fleet. Guess what? Nobody else wants to ride in those boats or even be downwind of them. Your clothes always end up stinking of two-stroke exhaust! I know some of you are going to get all indignant and say, "MY properly tuned two-stroke outboard doesn't stink!" Yeah, well, it's kind of like smoking; if you smoke, you don't notice the smell on your clothes. We tend to forget the way things were having been spared of them for awhile. Have you been behind a beautiful, perfectly tuned vintage car lately? The exhaust smell will choke you.

Look, I'm not a rabid environmentalist, but I believe 4-stroke outboards (or Etec two-strokes) are a better option for the planet than a two-stroke that pumps unburned gas and oil into the exhaust, into the water, into the air, and onto your clothes. The little 4-strokes are getting better and better. Obviously, using ethanol-free gas is a great way to avoid a lot of problems with the carbureted models - but, from what I understand, the fuel injected outboards have been a huge improvement. So, either buy an old stinky two-smoker, or embrace the new technology. That's just my two cents.

ERIC
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:08 AM   #58
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I love old two strokes too. Had a lot of great memories, jon boating as a little kid with my trusty Merc 7.5, waterskiing all summer during high school behind my beloved Glastron with Merc 65, fishing and diving in the 80s off of my Mako 21 with 200 Yammy... Heck, even the Great Harbour charter chase boat was a 15' Mirage with 50hp Yamaha two-stroke. There are a lot of benefits to the light weight, simplicity and ruggedness of a vintage two-stroke. In fact, about a year ago, I GAVE my 1985 Suzuki 8hp to some young friends here at the marina to push their little RIB dink along. I had not started the engine since 1997. It started on the second pull and still runs perfectly.

However. That outboard - and a Mariner 15 on another couple's RIB are the only two-strokes in our liveaboard dinghy fleet. Guess what? Nobody else wants to ride in those boats or even be downwind of them. Your clothes always end up stinking of two-stroke exhaust! I know some of you are going to get all indignant and say, "MY properly tuned two-stroke outboard doesn't stink!" Yeah, well, it's kind of like smoking; if you smoke, you don't notice the smell on your clothes. We tend to forget the way things were having been spared of them for awhile. Have you been behind a beautiful, perfectly tuned vintage car lately? The exhaust smell will choke you.

Look, I'm not a rabid environmentalist, but I believe 4-stroke outboards (or Etec two-strokes) are a better option for the planet than a two-stroke that pumps unburned gas and oil into the exhaust, into the water, into the air, and onto your clothes. The little 4-strokes are getting better and better. Obviously, using ethanol-free gas is a great way to avoid a lot of problems with the carbureted models - but, from what I understand, the fuel injected outboards have been a huge improvement. So, either buy an old stinky two-smoker, or embrace the new technology. That's just my two cents.

ERIC
Eric - All you say is absolutely correct!

However... there is just something too romantic about the memory of fumes that came out of them ol' Johnsons o/b's back in the 50's and 60's while we cruised the inside waters of LI's south shore.
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:19 AM   #59
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Eric - All you say is absolutely correct!

However... there is just something too romantic about the memory of fumes that came out of them ol' Johnsons o/b's back in the 50's and 60's while we cruised the inside waters of LI's south shore.
Wifey B: Guess your definition of "romantic" is far different than mine. I don't like stinky.
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:51 AM   #60
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ERIC,
"two smoker"
I love it.
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