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Old 01-13-2014, 08:15 PM   #21
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Agreed. I wouldn't spend two or three years of my life looking for a boat to use (unless I've already got one). That said, I look at boats akin to bicycles; buy the frame, everything else is (and will be) replaceable. Buy a good hull and you can make it your own.
Dang...I was close to that theory!

I bought a good engine and rebuilt the hull, decks, cabin and just about everything else around the 2 year old, rebuilt Lehman...

You are correct though..I have the same philosophy...I just screwed up not checking the hull more carefully...and unfortunately trusted the surveyor.
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:18 PM   #22
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It's a very flat vee bottom grafted onto traditional topsides....not a happy marriage and far from what I would consider seaworthy. Fine for a calm day and flat water.

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Old 01-13-2014, 10:41 PM   #23
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Spy,
"Buy a good hull and you can make it your own"

That's about what we did and it worked well. Can't blame the PO for much of anything as most of it's my doing.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:30 PM   #24
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Spent four months looking for my boat. Ended up purchasing a new boat, a simpler (but more expensive and lengthy: eight months from order to delivery in my case) process than buying one used. ... In that regard, I've just hired a company to pump out the Coot's black-water box: nasty business sucking stinkies.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:01 PM   #25
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Buying a hull and making her your own

This is a good way to end up with a really expensive old boat. I just spent three months helping finish just such a project. The owner and wife had spent four years non stop trying to complete a restore of a Gulfstar 50' sailboat. The owner a pretty talented craftsman finally decided that he would rather be cruising than spending the next year or two working on his boat. Building a boat this way has to be your hobby because it makes no sense cost wise. If you factor in your time working on the boat that you could use earning money at your job, the cost of retail pieces for your project, the learning curve mistakes that get to be redone. Even if your buy the parts at a huge discount they are nowhere nearly as cheap as the used parts installed and working on a used boat. I believe buying a boat in the best shape you can afford and maintaining what breaks as you use it makes far more sense. You get to use the boat immediately, and you only need to fix what is necessary to use it safely. If you have the talent to take on a project as complex as rebuilding a large boat than you certainly have the talent to maintain one. How many boat adds include the owner had just spent some ridicules amount of money on a refit, and for a fraction of the cost the whole boat can be yours. The home built Bebe trawler in Lodi is just such a case. The owner builder had so much time and money invested in his boat he couldn't accept the actual valve of his boat, he probably still can't. I'm starting another sailboat this week, the owner is in love with a thirty year old 30' sailboat, he just had the hull the whole boat stripped and gel-coated. The engine replaced. and I'm going to install teak decks and redo the interior teak. The rig and sails will need attention as well. Do you think it makes sense? You tell me.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:35 PM   #26
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How many boat adds include the owner had just spent some ridicules amount of money on a refit, and for a fraction of the cost the whole boat can be yours.
That describes our boat perfectly. The PO (whom I'm now good friends with) sold us the boat for less than 20 cents on the dollar not counting any of his time. Fresh from total refit.

If I can duplicate that, we will upgrade, Until that time we'll continue to enjoy what we have.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:39 PM   #27
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But if looking for something in particular and on a certain budget and time frame...sometimes you have a heck of a compromise on your hands.

I have done what most people consider a huge makeover while living aboard and have put over 4000 miles on her in the 3 years I have owned her.
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:09 PM   #28
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Re the huge stern platform on the Menorquin, Bill Parletore commented that it is the only boat he knows of that comes with its own dock.
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:13 PM   #29
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I've seen at least two here on the Chesapeake. One is (I think) a 39' at Herrington Harbour North, and the other (I think slight larger) was at the Hyatt in Cambridge when we were last there. I spoke with the owners of the second, and they really liked it. I thought kind of odd-looking, since the swim platforms jar the lines of the canoe stern. Wonderful wood work, but I expect that'd be boatloads of maintenance.

Endurance, I think I've seen you in our marina, maybe just prior to your most recent cruise southward? Hope you're doing well...

-Chris
Hi Chris, thanks for reaching out! Yes, we were at Herrington Harbor earlier this year, our first stop on a little 10 day trip down the bay. We also went to Tangier Island, Smith Island, and Solomons. Hope all is well with you too!
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:29 PM   #30
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But if looking for something in particular and on a certain budget and time frame...sometimes you have a heck of a compromise on your hands.
Exactly right

An experienced and well seasoned boater such as you is uniquely qualified to take a chance on something I would pass on. I've met too many folks who decided on a fixer upper boat based only upon purchase price that later discover the cost of renovation and repair is directly proportional to their time/ability to do the work.

I feel sorry for a couple of miserable trawler owners I've met that bought something they should have passed on. Our budget left us with a wide selection of project boats in our initial size range. My hobby is boating not renovating so our compromise was to purchase a smaller boat that met our current needs better anyway.

Time frame did not apply as ours is strictly recreational use only. Time is a definite factor for those whom live aboard.
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:08 AM   #31
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National Liquidators - 2003 Menorquin 160 Motor Cruiser, 52 ft. - National Liquidators --Never seen one of these before, but sure looks interesting. Look at that beam 16'03". Low profile too. From what I can see via the photos, is seems to be well finished, They always have about 30 more photos they can email you.
I might have seen that vessel back at the end of Dec when I was looking at a few other vessels. It was at Piney Narrows on Kent Island, MD if its the same vessel? Was not listed for sale at that time if I recall, if its the same vessel.
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:56 AM   #32
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It's a very flat vee bottom grafted onto traditional topsides....not a happy marriage and far from what I would consider seaworthy. Fine for a calm day and flat water.

How's that? Aside from the funny looking forefoot (which might only look odd because of the camera angle) , the hull below the waterline is like that of tens of thousands of ocean going ships and boats.

The topsides could be made from an old camping trailer and the bottom would still be what it is, a perfectly normal boat hull that is just different than what most residents here are used to looking at.
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:35 PM   #33
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Well Rick w that huge platform out back for a stern sea to hold the stern down (or even sink the boat) and those small rudders and flat bottom ....

Not sure about the sharp "pinched" forefoot. It could be good or it could hold the bow in place while a stern sea pushed the stern over for a great broach.
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Old 01-15-2014, 01:14 PM   #34
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There are hundreds of seagoing boats with far larger "beach club" size platforms than the one shown and they aren't broaching or sinking with any regularity.

The area and volume of that platform are actually quite small compared to what you can see at nearly any dock in this town.
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:13 PM   #35
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Go small and go now.

All this talk about "passage makers" on the forum lately reminds me of a listing story Tucker Fallon shared. He had a guy listing his boat(sub 40' Carver aft cabin I think) and the guy mentioned pair of water makers on board as equipment. He asked where he had been on the boat and he said South America and back.
I kinda gotta agree w/ Craig - i.e. "Go small and go now!"

Couple years ago - Just for S&G - realizing the stout build of our Tolly as well as its accommodating and fully equipped live aboard features and its great sea keeping abilities... I threw together what she could do if outfitted correctly regarding long range coastal cruising – for two [ ; - )

1. Drop approx 1.75K lbs off gross loaded weight by removing current equip not needed – i.e. Front V-Berth, head, lockers/closet and bridge seats as well as considerable item removal in master state room
2. Then, add approx 3K lbs to gross loaded weight via new, filled fuel tanks (300 extra gallons – in addition to the current 200 gals) and a water maker as well as emergency survival raft and some provisions, also fishing equipment. The newly added 1.2K lbs extra weight (above original gross weight) would soon drop away due to fuel use. And, not always would full fuel tanks be needed... therefore under most conditions, in most locations, boat weight would remain below its originally designed gross weight.

End result (with an averaged same or less gross loaded weight as before):

Using one engine at a time cruising at 5.5 to 6 knots and therefore accomplishing approx 2.5 nmpg (I’ve recorded up to 2.75 nmpg) with 500 gallons gasoline – for cost of a couple add-on fuel tanks and a water maker we’d have a full range of 1,250 miles with a safety range of 1,125 miles (10% fuel reserve)

That does not make our exceedingly comfortable 34’ Tolly a grand “Passage Maker”... but, when talking LRC Coastal Jaunts – she’s surely a doer! And, if more range than a 10% fuel reserve safe 1,125 miles was needed; fuel bladders could increase distance considerably. 200 extra gals (1,500 diminishing extra lbs) would place Tolly into the 1,750 mile total range with a 1,575 10% reserve fuel safe range.

Jus sayen! Happy Boaten Daze!


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Old 01-15-2014, 02:18 PM   #36
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How's that? Aside from the funny looking forefoot (which might only look odd because of the camera angle) , the hull below the waterline is like that of tens of thousands of ocean going ships and boats.

The topsides could be made from an old camping trailer and the bottom would still be what it is, a perfectly normal boat hull that is just different than what most residents here are used to looking at.
The forefoot definitely is odd....and saying it's perfectly normal does not change the lack of seaworthly features.....

Read this for my thoughts on the subject,

The Typical Powerboat is Not Seaworthy
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Old 01-15-2014, 02:23 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Scary
How many boat adds include the owner had just spent some ridicules amount of money on a refit, and for a fraction of the cost the whole boat can be yours.

Quote:
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That describes our boat perfectly. The PO (whom I'm now good friends with) sold us the boat for less than 20 cents on the dollar not counting any of his time. Fresh from total refit.

If I can duplicate that, we will upgrade, Until that time we'll continue to enjoy what we have.
Bingo - Ditto - Exacto - Samo - Yeso - I agreeo - Happened to us to o!

Ain't live grand! Happy Boating Daze!
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Old 01-16-2014, 06:46 AM   #38
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Hi Chris, thanks for reaching out! Yes, we were at Herrington Harbor earlier this year, our first stop on a little 10 day trip down the bay. We also went to Tangier Island, Smith Island, and Solomons. Hope all is well with you too!

I was thinking it was a service stop at Anchor YB on the South River?

Anyway, not to worry, sounds like a nice trip! Enjoy!

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Old 01-16-2014, 07:38 AM   #39
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The forefoot definitely is odd....and saying it's perfectly normal does not change the lack of seaworthly features.....
Ah c'mon Tad, that is right up there with those who post here claiming to be able to compose a stability book and determine propulsion efficiency (and fuel efficiency) based on a couple of blurry photos.

And the forefoot, based on some other photos I found, appears to be simple bluff bow ala the olden days of riveted iron or composite construction. A bit archaic but it does provide more volume forward than a deep V entry with exaggerated flair that is popular today.

And again, the swim platform or whatever you want to call it, is very small compared to what is found on hundreds of real ocean going yachts that can be seen by the dozen in Fort Lauderdale.

As a matter of opinion, I think the offending appendage is probably safer than those seen on nearly every boat in the avatars on this site. It is part of the structure rather than being held on by a handful of 1/4 inch bolts through the transom above and below the waterline yet have the same or greater area exposed to the loads that worry Eric.

This is close to another angels dancing thing for me but maybe one of the readers who is shocked and dismayed will contact the builder or one of the many owners and obtain some real life comments on the boat. The Med can get really really nasty in a hurry but I have not been able to find any stories about those boats foundering.
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:10 PM   #40
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Oops, did I really write "bluff" when I meant to write plumb? Seems I did, sorry.
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