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Old 04-12-2016, 10:11 AM   #1
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Unhappy New Member- MT 49 Survey a disaster. Any advice

My wife and I recently decided to semi retire and buy a boat and go cruising.

She did have a list of requirements:
Europa style
NO V berth for master
Must have a full queen bed, that is accessible from both sides.
Must have a homely traditional feel
MUST be safe for young grand babies.

I figured this was easy until the search started, after viewing possibly every boat for sale in the WORLD lol, we decided to get serious on a MT 49 Pilot House in Hamilton,Canada. We are in Florida so this is even crazier, but this is what she wanted.

We went back and forth with an offer as I felt the boat was over priced initially. The broker had assured me that the boat was a BUC 7-8 condition. After flying up in the middle of winter, the boat was on the hard and shrink wrapped and looked ok, but not as great as pictures and broker described.

We went ahead with the survey on the hard and it was a train wreck. The Surveyor rated it as a BUC 5 in poor condition. He also felt the boat condition had been grossly misrepresented in the add. The list of repairs was so extensive, I could not find one company to insure the boat based on the survey.

The broker has told me the owner will make the repairs and we are about to do the mechanical survey and sea trials this week, so I have about 4k invested in the boat so far. The surveyor believes it will take an act of god for the owner to bring the boat to compliance.

All of a sudden I have seen a lot of boats that are of similar age, length and style(not exactly what she wants) for about 40-50% less than my offer. Unfortunately many are on the west coast so moving those to Florida are not an option. But with the survey a disaster, the boat so far away, the boat being over priced, I am not so certain any more.

I have not been able to find any other pilothouse for sale in our price range, We also would look at a Cheoy Lee twin deck or Sea Ranger etc, in the same size range. We just don't seem to be able to find anything else.

So our problem are
1. Cut our loses and walk away
2. Start looking all over again
3. Attempt to re negotiate with seller for a price reduction
4. Buy what she wants even over priced
5. Settle for something that does not check all boxes for her.

Any advise from seasoned owners would be helpful or even a lead on a potential replacement would be even better as a backup.
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Old 04-12-2016, 10:19 AM   #2
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Brokers sell boats. That is how they make their money. A selling broker will usually say the boat is in better condition than it is. Your surveyor is working for you and gets paid the same regardless of whether you buy the boat or not. Trust him or her.


Personally, If I wanted to actually cruise, rather than messing around with repairs, I would look for a boat that needs few or no repairs. Yes, you may pay more but you get to do what you want to do, cruise on a boat.


So, I would walk away and start looking again. Your wife's opinion is important but only you know how important it is. "Over priced" is relative.
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Old 04-12-2016, 10:33 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Shaunc View Post
The broker has told me the owner will make the repairs and we are about to do the mechanical survey and sea trials this week, so I have about 4k invested in the boat so far. The surveyor believes it will take an act of god for the owner to bring the boat to compliance.

So our problem are
1. Cut our loses and walk away
2. Start looking all over again
3. Attempt to re negotiate with seller for a price reduction
4. Buy what she wants even over priced
5. Settle for something that does not check all boxes for her.

Any advise from seasoned owners would be helpful or even a lead on a potential replacement would be even better as a backup.
Are you anticipating an act of god? I don't expect the mechanical survey to do any better. Trusting an owner to bring a boat into compliance is really a leap of faith I wouldn't advise. You might get an estimate of your own and then ask for a reduction equal to at least twice that estimate.

As to your points above.

1. Forget the $4k. It's spent. It no longer has anything to do with whether to purchase this boat or not. It doesn't change. It's an insurance policy you bought and it's paid off by keeping you from getting in trouble.
2. Often searches take longer than we expect.
3. Possible but understand will take far more than you expect and delay use far longer. Not a great way to start.
4. 5. Both are choices. Perhaps extend your purchase price slightly for the perfect boat. Also recognize that many listed prices are more than they'll actually require. Maybe your original price target wasn't realistic. But then also every boat is a compromise.

How much time have you and your wife spent on boats cruising? If not much, I'd charter and learn more about your likes and dislikes.

Why isn't moving a boat from the West Coast an option? It might be.

If you don't have a buyer's broker, get one. You could use someone on your side to help guide you. To show you some boats that might not meet your checklist exactly but based on experience he/she things might be a great compromise. If you need one, then I'll be glad to make a recommendation in private.

Thank the insurers for looking out for you. They did it for themselves, but when they won't insure, that's like when a bank won't finance, it's good advice for you.

We just purchased our loop boat and I never thought a boat would be as difficult to decide on. We'd purchased many boats with no trouble and quickly. But this boat took us 3 years and that's buying new and not restricting ourselves with a budget. It doesn't meet several of our initial requirements. Yet, we love it. It fits us better than what we started thinking.

You and your wife fell in love with a boat. Not really. In love with an ad. In love with a claim. In love with some photos and words. Not this boat. Not as it is today.
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Old 04-12-2016, 10:37 AM   #4
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Looks like this is the boat:
1979 Marine Trader Salon Bridge Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Based on the exterior pictures alone, I can see how it caught your eye but once aboard, even from the pictures, it quickly becomes suspect and to me, a waste of time. I find it hard to understand your thinking. Ok, so you dropped 4 grand but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaunc;
The surveyor believes it will take an act of god for the owner to bring the boat to compliance.
...and you are undecided?

Start over.
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Old 04-12-2016, 10:40 AM   #5
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I would run very fast in the opposite direction. Good luck.
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Old 04-12-2016, 10:46 AM   #6
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The boat sounds like trouble. I would walk.

Surveyors are great, but keep in mind that they will not find everything wrong with the boat. If all the repairs are made that the surveyor identified, there will still be a bunch more stuff that you will have to deal with.

Put it this way, if an owner hasn't bothered to fix and maintain the really important stuff, how do you think they have maintained the little stuff? Small leaks that the surveyor would not see while shrink wrapped. Knobs, switches, latches that don't work. An outlet or fixture that doesn't work. All these things are items that will also tend to bug your wife and you will need to be fixing.

If the have been less than truthful and not maintained the big stuff, they won't be any better on the small stuff. Will you also trust the quality of the repairs that this seller makes?

You didn't say how much experience you have had. That makes a difference. You may want to reexamine the boxes, much less which ones are checked. We just bought a boat that didn't have a couple of our initial "must haves" and a couple "don't wants". The more we looked we found that we needed to reevaluate our initial requirement list not only for reason of cost and availability but because our list was made with a lack of experience.

I would look at the list you have and see which of those is limiting your boat choices. Then talk to owners who are using the boat as you would and are doing it in similar waters as you will.
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Old 04-12-2016, 10:54 AM   #7
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Take a deep breath, step back and re-evaluate. If you don't have a broker working for you, get one, it's costs you little to nothing. It takes some time and energy to find the right boat. Making this one work just might cause more work down the road and the enjoyment your looking for will fade quickly.
Another boat will show up soon, be patient and when you find the right boat, you'll know it.
By the way, even a boat in very good condition will require some time and money to make her yours!
Enjoy the hunt and don't look back.
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Old 04-12-2016, 10:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawgwash View Post
Looks like this is the boat:
1979 Marine Trader Salon Bridge Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Based on the exterior pictures alone, I can see how it caught your eye but once aboard, even from the pictures, it quickly becomes suspect and to me, a waste of time. I find it hard to understand your thinking. Ok, so you dropped 4 grand but......and you are undecided?

Start over.
If that's the boat, I have so many other questions but why you'd consider not walking now, can only be lust, not love for it. The condition from the pictures looks like everything in it has been wet. I was wondering part way through if it had been sunk. Then something really strange hit me. Why is it listed through a broker in Cleveland, Ohio? Obviously it's not a high value listing. If you were putting a boat for sale in Hamilton, Ontario, would you go to Cleveland for a broker. There are many in Hamilton. Has the broker ever seen the boat?

I would suggest you might be expecting more than is reasonable in a certain price range and might be better served by a little less boat, but newer. It's a 36 year old boat, with many issues.

What kinds of problems did the surveyor find?
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Old 04-12-2016, 10:57 AM   #9
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Greetings,
Welcome aboard. Hmmm....You shouldn't consider your survey $$ as a loss, as such. It's more of spending $$ to save $$. That particular boat has had a LOT done to her. Looks like a complete rebuild of the starboard side as evidenced by the "new" cabinetry (Looks like Home Depot stuff) and the bulkhead re-paint (should be teak). Really bad placement of the stove/oven IMO. NOT a user friendly galley area. Same deal with the dresser in the master-cheap aftermarket. Also looks like some "work" has been done to the bulkhead immediately to the left of said dresser. What's with that? Rot replacement?

Foredeck had been "remodeled" in poor taste (again IMO) and you will be constantly tripping over the chaises. Lazerette looks like it hasn't been maintained which suggests that level of attention has been applied to the whole vessel. ER is a bit of a mess as well.

You do NOT have to "Start looking all over again". You've already decided pretty well what's on your want list so you're ahead in that respect.

Personally, I'd walk and be prepared to spend more for a vessel that is not a shat and shinola special.

As to #5 in your OP. HAH! Do NOT even think of that. If Momma's happy, everyone is happy.

What, if I may be so bold, is your upper limit regarding price?
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:01 AM   #10
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Look at this...
1982 Defever 48 Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
It's closer than Hamilton ON.
It would be much more fun to get it to Tampa.
It would probably save you a bundle in the long run.
It would probably be insurable from the start.
But...
It would need some compromising.


Your boat is out there.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:06 AM   #11
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I would:

1. Cut your loses and RUN away
2. Start looking all over again
3. Buy what she wants even over priced, but that would mean a boat that had been well cared for.
4. Try to persuade her to settle for something that does not check all boxes for her. Every boat will be a compromise.

Good luck.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:19 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by BandB;
The condition from the pictures looks like everything in it has been wet. I was wondering part way through if it had been sunk.
Yup. I love looking at the peripherals in pictures, be they boats, homes or favorite pets. This series of interior photos is a gold mine of head scratchers and...
Quote:
Why is it listed through a broker in Cleveland, Ohio?
...is such a terrific catch.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:26 AM   #14
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Wifey B: Check boxes for the uninitiated....I know you're trying to hit all her list. Impossible

But she'll know if shown enough boats. Have you laid in bed perusing yachtworld together? I'm serious. We spent hours and hours at night just laying there with our tablets often linked to the tv, just looking at boat web sites.

But more...walk them, Watch House Hunters or any of those type shows. Never does a house meet every check box. The broker learns the couple, reads them, finds what hits the best, and they get a house they love. We did have check lists. Some were deal breakers, but most were preferences. For instance one of yours is Europa. What the heck is that anyway? I'm serious. Define it in your words, but more important what about it is important. Don't use a styling buzz word. There is something about it you like. Even more there's a "makes me feel". It may be on some things, makes me feel like its my home or makes me feel sexy or makes me feel comfortable or makes me feel like I have a real kitchen.

Even something like Pilothouse should be a "soft" requirement. The requirement is good vision, plenty of space around the helm, door to the side...perhaps....I don't know. Our loop boat doesn't have a Pilothouse but the lower helm I think has the benefits of one plus.

A good buyers broker knows how to ask and how to listen. Will show you perhaps something at first you don't think fits, but the moment you walk on it, you fall in love with it.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:32 AM   #15
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Hubby B; what a great starter kit you provided in post 12 and all but RI could be drive bys on a weekend outing. Love that Tolly.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:56 AM   #16
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Run away, start over. There is a good one out there for you, takes patience. The more you see the more you will be able to sum up the offerings yourself so you don't have to survey crap.

Don't be shy, be forceful with the broker. In fact, "get" a broker you like and have him work for you instead of meeting numerous strangers. I know 2 great brokers in Vancouver which I mention because they are out there.

Patience and re-read Wifey B's post.
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:02 PM   #17
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Have you looked at Hatteras flush deck motoryachts? I think that will check all of your boxes, plus they are as common as potato chips in Florida.


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Old 04-12-2016, 12:04 PM   #18
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Hubby B; what a great starter kit you provided in post 12 and all but RI could be drive bys on a weekend outing. Love that Tolly.
Well, I think a lot of people start out thinking "Trawler" but because of price vs age find themselves drawn to Bayliner, Mainship, Meridian, Tollycraft and find out that those boats are perfectly suited to the planned cruising.

Sometimes, it's a good exercise just to look around, walk the docks in your area of intended use, see what others have. There's also a reason he has had problems finding the boat he found in South Florida. It's not a high volume South Florida type of boat. That's just not where most of them are. It would be like looking for a Riva in Seattle.
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:34 PM   #19
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"Perfect Balance " , if so .... Interesting that it is listed on one site at $110k and another at $144k which is it ?

The only way to justify anything close to that higher price is if is a fresh water boat (minus one loop trip) I hope they didn't not tell you that it was a fresh water boat, it is obviously a long term saltie and was not even licensed in Canada until after 2006. Many hoses pictured are in bad shape, there appears to be soft areas on the aft cabin trunk. The inverter is not grounded. Soldboats data below ....
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:48 PM   #20
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"Perfect Balance " , if so .... Interesting that it is listed on one site at $110k and another at $144k which is it ?

The only way to justify anything close to that higher price is if is a fresh water boat (minus one loop trip) I hope they didn't not tell you that it was a fresh water boat, it is obviously a long term saltie and was not even licensed in Canada until after 2006. Many hoses pictured are in bad shape, there appears to be soft areas on the aft cabin trunk. The inverter is not grounded. Soldboats data below ....
My first thought in looking at it, was in the $50k to $75k range and the sold boats tends to support that unless in pristine condition.
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