Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-27-2014, 02:28 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
City: SanFran
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 166
New Long Thin, Hyper-Efficient Trawler

Hi Everyone,

I've been tracking Trawler and long range passage maker designs for the past 5 years with the plan of eventually buying one for family exploration around the world.

I've recently come across one that look pretty good for my application. I was wondering what other people think of this new design - what do you see as the strengths and weaknesses. I'm looking for input from more experienced cruisers - since I have yet to do any long distance cruising:

It has a range of about 6,000 miles but only burns a few gallons of fuel per hour.

Here are the details and an image below:

https://twitter.com/ArtnauticaYacht

__________________
Advertisement

LRC58Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 10:08 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Pura Vida's Avatar
 
City: Knoxville
Country: usa
Vessel Name: Pura Vida
Vessel Model: 08 Meridian 490 Pilothouse
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 231
I like it. I also found some construction pictures.

Artnautica LRC58 - Boat Design Net Gallery
__________________

Pura Vida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 10:11 AM   #3
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,452
Looks like a knock-off of the Dashew boats which have been around a long time now.

SetSail
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 10:15 AM   #4
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,915
The boat looks good ,

But I would prefer hawse holes to carry the anchors , and get rid of that bow ram, an accident waiting to happen.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 10:51 AM   #5
Guru
 
bligh's Avatar
 
City: Santa Cruz, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Frisky
Vessel Model: 99 Nordic Tug
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,083
Well, looks wise, I think its pretty sharp. But..
I seems like it only has the space of a 35-40 ft boat.
If it really is a 'passagemaker' and you will be using it in that capacity, you most likely will need stabilization of some sort.
If you want it for putzing around coastally and spending time in ports, you'd be much happier with a smaller boat that has the same amount of interior room and gets the same mileage.
bligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 11:04 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
City: Nokomis
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 178
There are considerably more photos on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Artna...002724?fref=ts
harbor950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 12:01 PM   #7
Guru
 
refugio's Avatar
 
City: Meydenbauer Bay Yacht Club
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Refugio
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,118
William Garden has designed long, narrow efficient cruisers in the past. They sell at a huge discount on the resale market because they don't align with marina slip dimensions and provide rather poor livability to cost ratio. Maybe if diesel were $10 to $20 per gallon it would start to make sense for more than 1 in a thousand boaters.
__________________
Keith
refugio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 01:07 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
City: SanFran
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 166
New Long Range, Hyper Efficient Trawler

Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Looks like a knock-off of the Dashew boats which have been around a long time now.

SetSail
Yes - definitely shares some similar design elements to the FPB series from Steve Dashew - but a very different design philosophy.

This new design is really focusing on cost-efficiency at all levels. The purchase price for one of these new designs (The Artnautica 58) has been estimated at $600,000. Steve Dashews' designs start at around $2.5 Million for his 64 foot boat.

I love the Dashew boats - but the price is so high. I really want to try to understand what exactly I'm giving up by going with the Artnautica design - when compared to the Dashew boat.
LRC58Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 01:19 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
City: SanFran
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 166
Yes - I'm thinking paravanes - but perhaps active stabilizers.
LRC58Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 01:30 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
mattkab's Avatar
 
City: Tacoma
Country: USA
Vessel Name: C:\[ESC]
Vessel Model: 1983 Fu Hwa Seahorse
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 222
Send a message via Skype™ to mattkab
I'm far from an offshore cruiser, but wouldn't you be very concerned about getting hit broadside by a decent sized wave in this type of design?
__________________
Thanks,
Matt B.
http://mvcesc.wordpress.com/
mattkab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 01:30 PM   #11
Guru
 
refugio's Avatar
 
City: Meydenbauer Bay Yacht Club
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Refugio
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by LRC58Fan View Post
I love the Dashew boats - but the price is so high. I really want to try to understand what exactly I'm giving up by going with the Artnautica design - when compared to the Dashew boat.
Well, the price per pound of the boats (when you subtract out the eye popping fuel and water which total about 1/3 of the displacement for both boats) isn't that much different: $32.40 for the Artnautica, $49.29 for the FPB 64.

The Dashew appears very well finished inside - I doubt the Artnautica would be finished to that level. Beyond that, there are probably hundreds of differences, but are they important to you? For instance, the Artnautica (drawings) lack any kind of railing aft of the forward deck - that would scare the crap out of me but your appetite for danger might be different. And that raised seat aft of the house...
refugio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 01:33 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
City: SanFran
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 166
New Long Range, Hyper Efficient Trawler

Quote:
Originally Posted by refugio View Post
William Garden has designed long, narrow efficient cruisers in the past. They sell at a huge discount on the resale market because they don't align with marina slip dimensions and provide rather poor livability to cost ratio. Maybe if diesel were $10 to $20 per gallon it would start to make sense for more than 1 in a thousand boaters.
Yes - people have done a cost analysis of the added length and its impact on the cost of the slip costs - but if you are actually using the boat a significant amount of time (the only reason to have this type of boat I think) then its a small percent of the costs. Here is that analysis: Artnautica 58—Design Analysis

So - that doesn't bother me. And I think the resale market will change significantly over the next decade as fuel prices go up and the bias will be towards more fuel efficient boats.

And as far as fuel prices - we all know the trend and if you're planning around the world cruising - it makes a difference - especially if you want to sell the boat in 10 or 15 years.

LRC58Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 01:35 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
City: SanFran
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 166
The designer / builder says that is designed for surviving roll-overs. He's building the first boat for his own use and will be using it as a live-aboard/global cruiser for a while. So it will be interesting to get his real-world perspective. And I believe a second hull is already being constructed so we'll have multiple data points pretty soon.

And as others have mentioned - the design is not so different from the Dashew FPB design - which has almost a decade and hundreds of thousands of miles of passage making under her keel. http://setsail.com
LRC58Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 02:05 PM   #14
Guru
 
Tad Roberts's Avatar
 
City: Flattop Islands
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Blackfish
Vessel Model: custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by LRC58Fan View Post
it will be interesting to get his real-world perspective.
I think you mean "sales pitch"......not that there's anything wrong with that....
Tad Roberts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 02:39 PM   #15
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,452
Well, I did use the term "knock off". It will be interesting to see what the price becomes after full testing is done.

The FPB and its clones are purpose built boats for circumnavigators and/or those who want to explore very remote places. Fuel efficiency is primarily for range, secondarily for economy. Reading the Dashew's excellent blogs and sales web site gives you a better idea for the considerations regarding safety and seaworthiness.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 03:12 PM   #16
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,024
Quote:
Originally Posted by LRC58Fan View Post
Yes - I'm thinking paravanes - but perhaps active stabilizers.
Think gyro. Stabilization underway, at anchor and at the dock. No deployment issues, no drag or break away issues. Needs a bit of AC power to drive it.
Capt.Bill11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 03:15 PM   #17
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,024
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
The boat looks good ,

But I would prefer hawse holes to carry the anchors , and get rid of that bow ram, an accident waiting to happen.
Do you ram things with your existing bow a lot now?
Capt.Bill11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 03:19 PM   #18
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Essex, Ct
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bella
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,170
That $600,00 price is just a come on. At the end of the day the cost to build one of these will be within pennies per lb of the Dashew boats, probably more. And the pounds will go up once all of the passagmaking equipment has been added.

This boat seems to be an exercise in cuteness and fuel efficiency. The Dashew boats have been thought through by a world passagemaker to stand up to that kind of service. Once a couple of hulls of the Artnautica have a couple of circumnavigations under their keels and have been redesigned to take that into account that experience I would consider one. Otherwise save your money for a FPB.

David
djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 06:05 PM   #19
Guru
 
Tad Roberts's Avatar
 
City: Flattop Islands
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Blackfish
Vessel Model: custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Think gyro. Stabilization underway, at anchor and at the dock. No deployment issues, no drag or break away issues. Needs a bit of AC power to drive it.
Add the weight of the gyro, the generator to run it, and the fuel for the generator....then up the main engine to compensate for increased drag due to increased displacement, and make the hull a bit bigger to compensate.....and so it goes until you end up with a 100,000 monster.

The boat has a mast and poles to tow paravanes, simple and relatively inexpensive.
Tad Roberts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 06:23 PM   #20
Guru
 
Insequent's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane River
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
That $600,00 price is just a come on. At the end of the day the cost to build one of these will be within pennies per lb of the Dashew boats, probably more. And the pounds will go up once all of the passagmaking equipment has been added.

This boat seems to be an exercise in cuteness and fuel efficiency. The Dashew boats have been thought through by a world passagemaker to stand up to that kind of service. Once a couple of hulls of the Artnautica have a couple of circumnavigations under their keels and have been redesigned to take that into account that experience I would consider one. Otherwise save your money for a FPB.

David
Or buy/build something that is not so butt ugly, and get a boat with generous, useable and safe outside deck area. Think 4 star beach resort versus 5 star Las Vegas hotel suite.

The FPB's are targeted at rich old farts, who don't go outside and like the AC to keep the climate just-so. Good luck to them, and to Steve for meeting the need. If I did ever win the lottery I would be more likely to pick a Nordhavn. Mind you, most of those are high, fat and slow, bloated - and ugly also. Tad, the world desperately needs someone to get one of your 56 or 80 into the water.

And another thing. If you are that concerned about oil price get something like the Kadey Krogen 42. There are two of them crossing oceans right now. Not for me, I'd want more boat. But the KK's are getting over 4nm/g. For any given trip the FPB or its knockoff will have a much, much higher fuel bill.

That feels better, I'm now going to chill for the rest of the day on my old tub....
__________________

__________________
Brian
Insequent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012