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Old 01-29-2015, 02:48 PM   #101
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11K on 75 hp is a delight , BUT it might require very light weight construction , which gets expensive.

I always figure about 3 lbs per sq fr of hull and deck is required in most boats 30-50 ft long.

Happily diesels are loosing weight although at 75 shaft , its still going to be 1300-1500 lbs with tranny.

Add it all up (seagoing windows 3/4 inch glass or so are HEAVY!) and it gets hard and expensive to stay light and long.
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Old 01-29-2015, 05:44 PM   #102
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The lite and long concept like any trend will get overhyped from one side and dissed from another. I think in the end many new boats will adapt some of the concept because it leads to efficiency and sea keeping ability. Not that long and skinny is new it is very well proven on older boats before mega power engines, what is new is the technology and materials to build lite and strong. A DIY builder could incorporate this concept with stich and glue construction and with good plans get a very efficient boat at reasonable cost. I would point out that would be a good boat not a cottage on the water. There is and always was such a thing as a good boat that did not provide luxury accommodations. Understandable that many boaters only see a good boat if the luxury or cottage aspect is aboard. We all have our preferences. I like to start with a good boat for its intended use and then add luxury well short of turning it into a cottage. Others at the other end of the spectrum start with the cottage concept then will try to wrap as much boat around or often under it as possible. For me a Kaddy-Krogan could be a good boat if I took a giant chain saw and cut a 4 foot horizontal chunk out of it lowering the topsides and air height, and the K_K is far from the worst example of its type, just my personal quirk.
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Old 01-29-2015, 06:35 PM   #103
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There's an article in the Jan/Feb issue on long and light.

And an anchor debate.
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Old 01-29-2015, 07:15 PM   #104
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There's an article in the Jan/Feb issue on long and light.

And an anchor debate.
Ok Eric you must be mad at me. Want me to search every magazine do you?
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:21 PM   #105
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11K on 75 hp is a delight , BUT it might require very light weight construction , which gets expensive.

I always figure about 3 lbs per sq fr of hull and deck is required in most boats 30-50 ft long.

Add it all up (seagoing windows 3/4 inch glass or so are HEAVY!) and it gets hard and expensive to stay light and long.
You are right - it is quite light construction - its an all-aluminum boat. The Morgan's Cloud website had a nautical engineer do an analysis of the Artnautica 58 hull - here are some quotes from that analysis:

"How light is light?
As drawn, weighing in at just 12 tonnes for a 17.8 m overall length, the Artnautica LRC58 is light indeed. Just how light is this thing? Let’s compare it to a few other real and hypothetical boats we might be familiar with. The table below lists the traditional displacement/length ratio, or DLR ( in long tons / (0.01*ft)3), and the modern dimensionless version (LDR, also called the slenderness ratio).

Vessel DLR = D/(0.01L)3 LDR = L/D3
Morgan’s Cloud ~ 312 ~ 4.51
Adventure 40 ~ 200 ~ 5.23
Doral 19 runabout ~ 170 ~ 5.52
Dashew FPB64 ~ 150 ~ 5.75
Artnautica LRC58 ~ 65 ~ 7.6

In other words, the LRC58 is – relative to its length – dramatically lighter than a Dashew motoryacht, and an absolute featherweight compared to a ballasted sailing yacht like the proposed Adventure 40. It’s even lighter, in relative terms, than my parents’ high-performance 19 foot runabout.

The structural engineering will be a real challenge here. This is a very light boat that will require careful attention to weight and structural details to achieve her mission.

....

He’s planning to carry 2300 L of water and we would undoubtedly want at least 1500 kg for food, cargo and personal gear. That works out to a payload fraction of roughly 25%, leaving somewhere between 5.5 and 7 tons for the structure, interior and all mechanical systems. I think this is achievable but it will require discipline (can’t have any unnecessary junk on board), skilful engineering, and reduced margins for error requiring very thorough QC during the build.

For comparison, a Boeing 737 has a fuel fraction of 27% and a payload fraction of 13%. Trawler yachts usually have a fuel fraction in the 12–15% range, with payload fractions also being in the low teens. A Dashew FPB 64′s fuel fraction is roughly 29%, but those boats are 2.3 times heavier and a bit faster, relative to their length and accommodation volume, than Harjamaa’s design; not surprisingly, they also carry (at 12,800 L of diesel) about 3.4 times as much fuel to get a similar range. Long-range motoryachts are not the same kind of animal as their short-hop coastal cousins; pushing the fuel capacity out to trans-oceanic levels means that we’re approaching an airliner’s sensitivity to weight and its distribution.

Source: Artnautica 58—Design Analysis
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:23 PM   #106
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11K on 75 hp is a delight , BUT it might require very light weight construction , which gets expensive.
.
Just wanted to address the cost issue - while the Aluminum construction might be somewhat higher cost, because the total displacement of the boat the total cost is not so high for this type of boat. Current estimates that I've seen are that this LRC 58 would be completed for about $600,000 - which for a new boat in this class is very good.

The Dashews FPB 64s are around $3 Million for comparison (though a much greater displacement boat so not an apples to apples comparison).
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:33 PM   #107
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Just wanted to address the cost issue - while the Aluminum construction might be somewhat higher cost, because the total displacement of the boat the total cost is not so high for this type of boat. Current estimates that I've seen are that this LRC 58 would be completed for about $600,000 - which for a new boat in this class is very good.



The Dashews FPB 64s are around $3 Million for comparison (though a much greater displacement boat so not an apples to apples comparison).

Yes and the interiors aren't white Formica and ikea wood trim...
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Old 01-30-2015, 01:32 AM   #108
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Just wanted to address the cost issue - while the Aluminum construction might be somewhat higher cost, because the total displacement of the boat the total cost is not so high for this type of boat. Current estimates that I've seen are that this LRC 58 would be completed for about $600,000 - which for a new boat in this class is very good.

The Dashews FPB 64s are around $3 Million for comparison (though a much greater displacement boat so not an apples to apples comparison).
How many people have been able to buy and cruise in this amazing machine? How can one be sure this is not just a passionate builder's pipe-dream?
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Old 01-30-2015, 01:34 AM   #109
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Vikings had a pretty good record using long, thin boats. Here's a modern yachty version; Home
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Old 01-30-2015, 02:07 AM   #110
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How many people have been able to buy and cruise in this amazing machine? How can one be sure this is not just a passionate builder's pipe-dream?
Where can one go take a test cruise in one?

Not just in boating, but throughout business endeavors, I've seen tons of ideas, prototypes, concepts, designs and the vast majority never made it to market. Theory often doesn't translate to reality. This isn't to condemn this or any other design idea. It's just to state that the time from concept to production is very long and for most concepts, production never comes.

This is also where comparing to Dashew doesn't work. While a Dashew is definitely not for us, if I did think it was, I could work out a way to actually get aboard one and evaluate it further. They exist. In fact, I'd jump on a chance regardless to actually get on one and further understand it.
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Old 01-30-2015, 07:44 AM   #111
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Interior Look is very important to folks satisfaction with their boat.

The fish killers love simple modern , easy to keep clean , easy to maintain modern Ikea style interiors , as do most of the newer Euro boats.

The Dead Enchanted Forrest look seems to be the joy of folks that think endangered species of wood wall to wall and on the ceilings looks fancy.

These seem to NOT be the fast cruiser market , as many are aground in their own coffee grounds , and delighted not to be able to move their water front cottage much.

AS todays computer folks get better , the use of plate cut flat aluminum , perhaps with a rolled chine , will get lower in cost to produce.

A kit of all pre cut parts , a tack weld crew (2 people) and a smart robot welder should have the cost mostly to the pounds of material, and the ft of welding. A 55 ft hull in under a week, easily.

Electrical stuff in channels will ease the install of electrics , and follow on toys over the years.

New spray materials can insulate and sound proof the boat in one shot.

A factory Reman seasoned engine and tranny should have the same or better service life of a new block.

Many commercial or military items , water tight doors and sub compartmenting could be included for little extra cost if designed in.

With luck the day of the cruising cookie boat may be over , except at the real competitive bottom.

Sadly the problem of the owner not knowing what he requires from the boat , and how to speck it will remain.

So beach balls will continue to sell.
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:48 AM   #112
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Ok Eric you must be mad at me. Want me to search every magazine do you?
MAD ....... NO INDEED.
I was just in a Barn's & Noble book store and picked up a Wooden Boat mag, the PMM mag and a car mag. Thought PMM didn't have anything worth reading anymore but was pleasantly surprised.

The meltdown of the anchor debate was leaning a bit too far into the "dosn't matter what you use" category. That was a cut above the "gotta buy a Rocna or you're stupid" that's typical of the boating press. But Chuck Hawley and Nigel Calder are too far apart to have an objective debate. And it was called out as a debate right on the cover.

Found much to read though and thinking there were others w like minds I thought a heads up post was in order.
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:25 AM   #113
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New spray materials can insulate and sound proof the boat in one shot.
What materials are you referring to? Are these spray on materials that would seal all nooks and crannies, or just blanket materials that need to be glued on?
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:33 AM   #114
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How many people have been able to buy and cruise in this amazing machine? How can one be sure this is not just a passionate builder's pipe-dream?
This is a new design - though the designer has been designing boats for two decades with leading boat design firms, I believe.

The first prototype of the design is just in sea trials - and the second boat is in production - so its early days right now. You can follow the development and sea trials here:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Artna...00243140002724
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:38 AM   #115
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Yes and the interiors aren't white Formica and ikea wood trim...
I agree - the interior on the prototype is very minimal - but hey, its a prototype.

I'm sure if you want a more luxurious interior that you can have the builder do something more to your liking - but obviously because of the "Light" philosophy of the boat - it would have to be something that could be translated into this type of philosophy.

An example might be seen in something like the Adastra interior - I definitely would like something a little more like this than the current Artnautica LRC 58 interior - but obviously its all budget driven.

ADASTRA



ADASTRA INTERIOR:





SOURCE:

http://www.shuttleworthdesign.com/adastra.php
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:41 AM   #116
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I frequently see 2 companies that have USCG legal spray noise reduction product that advertise in magazines..

The spray foam for insulation would be much less dense ..

As well as a different method of construction the builders would need a different economic model.

In Herrishoffs day the yards would do the books and see at year end if they made the desired profit.

Today builders mark up the boat cost by 25% or more, and the dealer adds another 20-25% on top..

This should go by the board if many more shops can bang out a hull.

And other shops specialize in finishing to the owners desirements.
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:47 AM   #117
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Where can one go take a test cruise in one?

This is also where comparing to Dashew doesn't work. While a Dashew is definitely not for us, if I did think it was, I could work out a way to actually get aboard one and evaluate it further. They exist. In fact, I'd jump on a chance regardless to actually get on one and further understand it.
The Artnautica LRC 58 is also designed and built in New Zealand just around the corner from where the Dashew boats are built. So thats were you have to go if you want to test cruise them.

I agree - if you want a long and thin, very efficient world cruiser you should take it for a test cruise. I'm not at that point yet - Its going to be a few years before I get serious about buying a cruiser - but if you're ahead of me in timeframe - Here is where you can do that:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Artna...00243140002724

More details on the boat builder:

Sea trials of the new Dickey Boats LRC58 | Dickey Boats

http://www.dickeyboats.com/news-and-...-boats-lrc-58/





Not sure if you can post videos here - but let me try - scroll down to see the video:

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Old 01-30-2015, 12:07 PM   #118
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Looks like they launched in a mill pond for that promotional video. Doesn't show much at all.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:13 PM   #119
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Just found these new videos and images on the Adastra long and lean, hyper-efficient yacht. Out of my range - but I like it:





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Old 01-30-2015, 12:16 PM   #120
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Just found these new videos and images on the Adastra long and lean, hyper-efficient yacht. Out of my range - but I like it:






Cool looking but too long and lean. IMO.
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