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Old 10-02-2015, 07:52 AM   #241
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"Seems it would just plow thru the waves like a submarine."

That would really depend on how heavy it is. A D/L of about a hundred and it should stay on top.

Also the fetch and time would enter the picture a 212 ft wave in a long blow in deep water would be no big deal.

12fters in thin water just starting to get heaped would have much shorter period and be heavy going .
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Old 10-02-2015, 12:21 PM   #242
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UGH!

Having to crawl across the bunk to the foot of the bed might be good for an O nite guest , but not for me.

Where does the guest sleep underway? , even skinny boats have lots of motion forward.
I agree - I think the entire bed placement is a rather strange layout for a boat that is a passage maker. The only bed seems to be in the very front - which is the last place you want your bed to be during a rough passage.

The center area seems like a waste of space in the current layout. I know the designer is likely trying to minimize loss of space to hallways - but the result seems to be a boat for two people right now.

Also - I think it needs better handholds, perhaps on the ceiling for moving about the cabin in rough weather.

The boat seems to have good fit and finish - and Dickey seems good at that, but I really wish he'd chosen a boat builder who had built many ocean crossing boats before - ideally aluminum sailboats.

I still need to be shown that this boat is good in rough weather and long distance.
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Old 10-02-2015, 12:40 PM   #243
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Seems it would just plow thru the waves like a submarine.
I do not know if submarining is good or bad.

Steve

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Old 10-02-2015, 01:35 PM   #244
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I do not know if submarining is good or bad.

Steve


Yikes! Add dive planes and this bad boy is headed for periscope depth!
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Old 10-03-2015, 01:29 PM   #245
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I do not know if submarining is good or bad.

Steve
I think most boat designers and people experienced with the longer thinner designs say that a little submarining is fine - it keeps the motion minimized and makes for a much better ride for everyone involved.

Some quotes from a review of the Dashews' FPB design:

[PDF] Serious Sea Trial - Review: Dashew FPB 83
Quote:
Plowing through at nearly full revs, occasionally a greenie smothered the win- dows, indicating the least comfortable speed for these conditions. I finally man- aged to photograph the moment, standing with one knee on the settee for balance I stayed upright, so the motion cant have been too bad.

The boat surged through steadily, creat- ing some impressive sprays from the bow at 8.5 knots. We certainly felt safe and warm from the storm outside. As Linda Dashew says, I like the whole feel of the boat. She feels very stately when she goes through the water. I feel free very safe on her.
Read the full review here:

http://www.rocna.com/sites/default/f...gnz_dashew.pdf
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Old 10-04-2015, 12:27 AM   #246
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No thanks, I prefer my boats stay on TOP of the water!

Maybe I'm just a little quirky that way...
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Old 10-04-2015, 01:29 AM   #247
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Yep, I like staying on the surface as well
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Old 10-04-2015, 10:05 AM   #248
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Yep, I like staying on the surface as well
I like wave-piercing designs because it gives a much smoother ride, higher speed and much greater efficiency (at the cost of interior space, admittedly).

Heck - I'd go for a Swath (50% submerged all the time) if it didn't limit you from shallower waters...

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Old 10-04-2015, 10:13 AM   #249
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I'd go for a Swath (50% submerged all the time) if it didn't limit you from shallower waters.
LRCFan, I did a lot of research myself into SWATHs since for me (actually my wife) motion comfort is more important than even draft.

The smallest SWATH design I could find was 50ft and the estimates to construct (in aluminum) were way too high. The draft wasn't any deeper than my current monohull design of 6+ feet. Payload capacity was very low and even changes in fuel required water ballasting to compensate.
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Old 10-04-2015, 10:33 AM   #250
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...and then there's SWASH;
Attached Thumbnails
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Old 10-04-2015, 10:33 AM   #251
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SWASH in action;

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Old 10-04-2015, 11:22 AM   #252
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LRCFan, I did a lot of research myself into SWATHs since for me (actually my wife) motion comfort is more important than even draft.

The smallest SWATH design I could find was 50ft and the estimates to construct (in aluminum) were way too high.
I can see a lot of benefits to SWATH too - as the motion comfort is always a factor for many people, and who doesn't like less motion?

While as MurryM mentioned - there is the MONO-SWATH designs that are in testing - the issue still is initial build cost (and how many experienced builders are there for this type of boat?), as well as resale value (the resale value of a custom boat is terrible as it is, who has a few $ million that they can throw away), and of course there is long term design issues too - the SWATH that the Monterrey Bay aquarium started developing cracks in the hull after a few years because of the stresses of the two hulls being pulled and pushed by the waves repeatedly over time.

For me - Long and Narrow monohull is the most proven, efficient and long term approach. We all know that oil prices are not going to stay down for too long.
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Old 10-04-2015, 11:27 AM   #253
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I remember touring that SWATH years ago. If I recall, the problem was notch stress, which is an often-seen issue on metal construction. The investigative engineering report was floating around the internet for awhile too.

BTW, working here in the Middle East, the word from the GCC countries is that oil prices will remain low for many, many years to come. Also, every year North America becomes more independent from MidEast oil, which also helps to keep prices down.

IMO, if your cruising ground is America then you don't have too much to worry about, but for those who travel to places like Europe and South Pacific, that is where fuel costs become more significant than even marina fees. When I owned my 65 footer the marina fees were killing me. Fuel costs were nothing in comparison. That's why I've now limited myself to 50ft.
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Old 10-04-2015, 11:46 AM   #254
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I remember touring that SWATH years ago. If I recall, the problem was notch stress, which is an often-seen issue on metal construction. The investigative engineering report was floating around the internet for awhile too.

IMO, if your cruising ground is America then you don't have too much to worry about, but for those who travel to places like Europe and South Pacific, that is where fuel costs become more significant than even marina fees.
Yes - the Monterey Bay Aquarium SWATH engineering report is still available here - seems that the resale value of that boat is going to be pretty low:

Ship Structure Committee: Case Study: Flyer

"R/V Western Flyer has experienced localized cracking to its aluminum structure during typical operations during virtually all of its twelve year life span. Various modifications have been implemented in an attempt to solve this problem."

Forecasts being a little uncertain in this area - I guess nobody really knows what the oil price will be in 5, 10 or 15 years (or however long you expect to own a boat). All is know for sure is the higher the price of oil, the lower the resale value of a boat that burns a lot. And the further I travel, the more I would pay in Diesel.

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Old 10-23-2015, 04:12 PM   #255
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A recent news story on the Artnautica LRC 58

Cruise the world on half a litre of diesel per nautical mile


"Starting at $850,000 (New Zealand $, or about $570,000 US) , its affordability is enhanced by the boat's extraordinary fuel economy.

In flat water, lightships, on this 58ft, 14-tonne vessel, we recorded:

• 7.2kts using 0.55 litres diesel per nautical mile

• 8.1kts using 0.67 litres diesel per nautical mile

• 9kts using 0.84 litres diesel per nautical mile.


Full story here:

The Naked Cruiser | Stuff.co.nz
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Old 10-25-2015, 03:08 PM   #256
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For 14 T; At 7,2 kts 0,55 liter per nm
Our boat :
For 30T at 7 kts 0,81 liter per nm . ( with drag of the unused propeller...)
or at 7,4 kts 0,92 liter per nm. ( "...)


I remember to have read something concerning "transport efficiency" on the Tad Robert website ... if Tad Robert
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Old 10-25-2015, 04:37 PM   #257
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For 14 T; At 7,2 kts 0,55 liter per nm
Our boat :
For 30T at 7 kts 0,81 liter per nm . ( with drag of the unused propeller...)
or at 7,4 kts 0,92 liter per nm. ( "...)


I remember to have read something concerning "transport efficiency" on the Tad Robert website ... if Tad Robert
Transport Efficiency is here....

Transport Efficiency (Et ): A useful comparison of speed/power/weight
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Old 11-06-2015, 12:35 PM   #258
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Another update on another long thin design: Looks like fun! Watch the video full screen and right to the end to see the ultimate ride.

The OCEAN EAGLE 43 offers an unmatched cost to performance ratio:
3,000 nautical miles autonomy at 20 knots
Top speed of 30 knots sustainable over a distance of 1,000 nautical miles
Limited crew of 7 sailors
Accomodations for 8 additional Special Forces


New Ocean Eagle 43 meter Trimaran in Sea State 5

Read more here - I wonder how much a civilian version would cost:

Video: CMN's Ocean Eagle 43 Trimaran Patrol Vessel Demonstrating Seakeeping in Sea State 5

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Old 11-07-2015, 05:52 AM   #259
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The point here is long and skinny are fine for cruising FASTER than most folks are willing to pay for.

A fat boat (think beach ball) will have the least wetted surface and be quite cheap at SL 1.

It also has the most volume per foot for the cottage camper or roomarian folks.

Long and skinny is fine for mental masturbation . of after you win the lottery , but 3-1 L/B is about what most are going cruising with.
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:02 AM   #260
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I agree FF,
I've always liked long and narrow .. as in canoe. Or many older boats.
But I like my short and rather fat Willard that we've had for about 10 years. She turns sharp even at very low speeds but needs to go really slow (6 knots) to get good fuel economy and not be over driven. What I find amazing is her ability to rise up to any sea that we've encountered high enough so no serious water comes aboard. She's full and heavy aft but the bow pops right up and over most all seas. It's even a pleasant motion. We get some light slop on the windows at times but no real amount of water. And as FF points out short and wide gives (by far) the most space. And now w high mooring costs it's even more attractive.
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