new here. about me, and a question.

[scoobert]

hello all!
i am 30, from new york.
i have a wife, and a bump.

i have been looking to full time for about 4-5 years now.
the reasons are mainly financial.
i cannot see buying a house, and paying $4500-6500 a year in property tax, plus upkeep, plus electric, heat, plus a massive loan.
so me and the wife(mostly me) have saved up $20,000 to buy our first boat.
i had a preference for a sail boat. the major drawback of the sail boat was interior size.
as i plan to home school our bump, i will need quite a bit of space, and for 20K we could not get much of a sailboat. we would need about 80-120K for the correct size.
so i have settled on a trawler of some sort.
40-50' range.
one master, one bunk. lots of interior living space.
we plan to initially loop, then maybe explore south America in 3-5 years.
all things a trawler can do. there are ways to get to europe if we wanted to, but cruising europe, is expensive... so maybe not.

i have run into a ton of semi-displacement yachts in our price range.
i am going to stress, we are in no hurry. if we could go 2-3KTS for 5-8NMPG we will. we will be adding a ton of solar, hopefully 3000 watts.+/-

so the first question, at super slow speeds can you get massive NMPG?
also i am a diesel mechanic. so please do not inform me of diesels being at low load for an extended time.

i am avoiding 2 stroke.

any input is welcome, and FYI sometimes my ideas are a bit out there, be kind.

 

[timjet]

You've come to the right place. The collective experience on this forum is unmatched.

I will not give you any advise, as there are others much more suited.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.

PS: move out of NY!

 

[scoobert]

You've come to the right place. The collective experience on this forum is unmatched.

I will not give you any advise, as there are others much more suited.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.

i really hope so. i am a member on another forum, they are more sail related then trawler.

PS: move out of NY!

yes, i hate NY.(so does the wife)

 

[Woodsong]

First thing I would say is make sure your wife is 110% on board, literally and figuratively, with this dream! I am sure she is but choosing that lifestyle has to be a conscience decision between both parties.
$20k won't but much of a sailboat or much of a trawler. Any 45-50' trawler in that price point, in most all likelihood, is not going to be sea worthy enough to accomplish the cruising you described, though you may be able to find something super cheap that would be a floating condo for you to live in a marina aboard that you could fix over time.
The slower you go the better fuel economy you will get.

 

[Talonewo]

Anything is possible, check out Bumfuzzle, click “adventures” read about their three “trips” then go to the bottom left side of the page and click on archives… start in the September 2003 post. Dig around their site, it has budgets and their monthly expenses.

 

[scoobert]

Anything is possible, check out Bumfuzzle, click “adventures” read about their three “trips” then go to the bottom left side of the page and click on archives… start in the September 2003 post. Dig around their site, it has budgets and their monthly expenses.

yes i have. completely. now that they have kids they are dock lovers.

 

[scoobert]

First thing I would say is make sure your wife is 110% on board, literally and figuratively, with this dream! I am sure she is but choosing that lifestyle has to be a conscience decision between both parties.
$20k won't but much of a sailboat or much of a trawler. Any 45-50' trawler in that price point, in most all likelihood, is not going to be sea worthy enough to accomplish the cruising you described, though you may be able to find something super cheap that would be a floating condo for you to live in a marina aboard that you could fix over time.
The slower you go the better fuel economy you will get.

you are correct. i have been looking for boats in need of engine, or cosmetic work, i have found a few, and i keep making offers.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Great plans and I'm just a grumpy old man but $20K dosn't seem to fit.

There are many things about a hull and cabin that can sink your plans but you are the biggest variable. If you manage to steer clear of big blister problems and rotten plywood in the cabin or water soaked bulsa cored decks you may have a chance if you're the kind of guy that meets everything head on and wins ...... you can probably pull it off.

A full disp boat like a Willard 40 will require about 23hp to make 7 knots and most all semi displacement boats will require about twice that amount. Knowing that won't do you much good though as there are very few FD trawlers to choose from. I think what you need is a screaming deal on a 100% structurally sound typical trawler like an Island Gypsy. Then you'll need the knowledge of how to protect a boat from falling prey to all these downfalls. If you're psychologically and physically able to stay on top of and preventing future problems that would be more than a plus.

But that's a lot of domino's tetering in line waiting to fall. It all boils down to what kind of guy you are scoobert. Gonna be hard though.

By the way I like your thread title a lot.

 

[JohnP]

Hi, I hate to be the one to burst your bubble--BUT--get real!

Owning a boat big enough to live on with a new family will cost more than taxes and upkeep of a small house.

I know about taxes, I live in New Jersey.

Add to the equation doing the Loop, going to the islands or what not will really cost plenty.

Get an apartment close to work, have the baby and maybe buy a sailboat.

After your child is at least a couple of years old if you still want to go cruising, take the sailboat and go.

If you really have to live aboard, move to a warmer climate, buy a big old motoryacht, it does not have to be in perfect running shape, just roomy and dry.

Good Luck, Wish I were young again. JohnP

 

[Codger2]

Hi, I hate to be the one to burst your bubble--BUT--get real!

You beat me to it, John. Couldn't agree more. (News Flash) Depending where you live (state) there are property taxes every year on boats that have a separate stateroom & bath.

I suggest that you do more research into this whole dream as you are way off the mark at the present time.

There will be those on this forum that will tell you to "go for it!" From what you've written so far, you are not ready.

 

[scoobert]

hi john. i will be moving onto a boat, sooner then later. not olny are those things i mentioned important, but i like changing scenery. the places i would buy a house, dont have work for me, the places that do, i dont want to buy a house.
i also worry about the government here in USSA its going down, and getting worse. 180 trillion in debt, and still spending. i don't have to have an accounting degree to know it will end. they can use lorry drivers anywhere in the world.

 

[scoobert]

You beat me to it, John. Couldn't agree more. (News Flash) Depending where you live (state) there are property taxes every year on boats that have a separate stateroom & bath.

anyone dumb enough to register their boat in one of those places should be shot. my research so far says Rhode Island is the best place to register. no tax on purchase, ect. but i will nail that down once i find a boat.

thanks for your input.

 

[Codger2]

anyone dumb enough to register their boat in one of those places should be shot.

 

[Woodsong]

anyone dumb enough to register their boat in one of those places should be shot. my research so far says Rhode Island is the best place to register. no tax on purchase, ect. but i will nail that down once i find a boat.

thanks for your input.

Do keep in mind that with boats and taxation it is more often than not based upon where the boat resides/is kept vs. where it is registered. You can register your boat in RI but guess what- stay too long in another state and you will get taxed. To make it even more fun, each state has it's own taxation laws and they change them time to time so you need to completely research this issue.
Owning a house and real estate will eventually also be an appreciating asset, despite our current market conditions. A boat will most always be a depreciating asset unless you buy a boat in a state of needing repair and you can create value via the renovations.
I can't speak to whether it will work for you or not- that is your call. However, make sure you research the taxation laws for boats in each state you think you may reside aboard so that you know what you will owe the tax man. $20k is very light for a 40-50' boat that will most likely need renovations. Just filling up a 500 gallon fuel tank is an easy $2k.
I would go back to the idea of a sailboat personally. If you could find a good deal on a 40' sailboat you will be able to cruise for less $$ than in a trawler though you certainly will have less space. It all depends though whether your dream is to liveaboard and stay in a marina or do the loop or go to south america...each has it's own set of requirements.

 

[DavidM]

It is good that you are e diesel mechanic (and I appreciate your comment about no criticism for running slow- I agree), but don't consider buying a boat in need of complete engine overhauls.

The 6 cylinder Perkins or Lehmans that come in these boats will require at least $5,000 and maybe $10,000 in parts to overhaul one. One manicooler for a Perkins will take up a big chunk of that. Your whole budget could be spent on parts overhauling those diesels.

Look for a boat with sound engines even if you have to pay more.

Cosmetic or systeml problems (bilge pumps,stoves, water heaters, etc, etc.) can be fixed or replaced yourself for reasonable money, but engines cannot.

And I would also caution you about relying on your non-marine diesel skills too much. It is often the marine parts that fail and when they do, they sometimes trash the core engine. Be very careful of exhaust manifolds, heat exchangers, injection elbows, itc.

David

 

[scoobert]

Do keep in mind that with boats and taxation it is more often than not based upon where the boat resides/is kept vs. where it is registered. You can register your boat in RI but guess what- stay too long in another state and you will get taxed. To make it even more fun, each state has it's own taxation laws and they change them time to time so you need to completely research this issue.

i have read that before. as far as i can tell its on my scout honor to call up new york and say "hi, i have been here 6 months, please send me a tax bill. thank you" when my scouts good honor is approached by the tax man, well you get the point.

i have no issue with fuel costs.
my current income is very good. and i do not plan to stop working for at least 4 years. or more.

lack of appreciation is one of the reasons i am moving off land.
i bought a property 6 years ago. its worth nothing now.
it cost me 28,000 then, i have put 15,000 into it to make it a building lot.
now its worth 5-8K. i had a vision 5 years ago. that this may happen. i stopped paying my land tax of $3000 a year. the tax man will come calling this winter. i can pay 15,000 + fees, and i have the money, or let them keep the land. frankly i was giving thought to having a friend buy the land back from the auction, and staying another 6 years it could sell for as little as $3000. if i would have spent the $150,000 to build the home i would have a home and land with a value of about $65,000. with about 8500 a year in taxes. the math does not work out. no one wants to live in NY anymore, and home values are crashing. i had given though to new mexico. but thats not the best life for a few kids.
being raised on a boat has so many advantages over a house. they will visit the places in their history book, they will get to meet all kinds of people, peer pressure will be negligible. no internet or video games or iphones, or ipads or whatever kind of mindless dribble kids will be addicted to next.
we have made the choice to raise our kids as if it is the 1920's. one of the last great generations. our kids entertainment will be small rectangular objects that "make no bee-bee-beep's called books".(never ending story)

as for what $20,000 can buy....

1981 Mainship 40 Pilot Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=58009&url=

i am not posting the one i am making an offer on, its a great deal if i can get it

 

[scoobert]

It is good that you are e diesel mechanic (and I appreciate your comment about no criticism for running slow- I agree), but don't consider buying a boat in need of complete engine overhauls.

The 6 cylinder Perkins or Lehmans that come in these boats will require at least $5,000 and maybe $10,000 in parts to overhaul one. One manicooler for a Perkins will take up a big chunk of that. Your whole budget could be spent on parts overhauling those diesels.

Look for a boat with sound engines even if you have to pay more.

Cosmetic or systeml problems (bilge pumps,stoves, water heaters, etc, etc.) can be fixed or replaced yourself for reasonable money, but engines cannot.

And I would also caution you about relying on your non-marine diesel skills too much. It is often the marine parts that fail and when they do, they sometimes trash the core engine. Be very careful of exhaust manifolds, heat exchangers, injection elbows, itc.

David

yes, i agree. i was considering making a custom heat exchanger myself.
in the style of a large ships cooler, built like a big boiler. with removable plates at each end for ease of cleaning. i can weld, and still have my welder.

i have seen these engines, and have seen the cost of marine replacements.
i have a trick up my sleeve for that. its called a cummins 4B.
they can be had for $1500-2000 and manifolds can be modified from a marine 6BTA.

where are you getting your parts?
a complete internal rebuild kit for a cummins is $800-1800.

5.9L Cummins B Series Engine Rebuild Overhaul Kit

with a bit of a search i bet i could find the same for perkins...

 

[scoobert]

here is a random perkins rebuild kit.
perkins-overhaul-kit-6-354

here is one for a detroit -71
http://internetdiesel.com/detroitdiesel8v-71enginerebuildcrossheadoverhaulkit.aspx


i do not know what heat exchanger is required, but here are a bunch...
http://www.mrcool.us/engine-product.../perkins-coolers/perkins-heat-exchangers.html

 

[Phil Fill]

I would strongly advise you not to live on a boat in the cold/freezing area with a wife and a bump. As mentioned before make sure the wife is 110% agrees and has the final final final say on the boat. You PRIMARY focus should be on creature comfort and live aboard requirements, NOT the darn boat electronics and/or running gear. If fact I am total against you presently even thinking about trying to live a boat as you are putting you wife and bump in danger.

Forget about the darn engines and focus on being a live aboard.

 

[scoobert]

funny story with me and the wife.
a week after i met her i knew i liked her a lot.
so i said to her listen, here is my dream...
in the next few years i am moving onto a boat and will be seeing as much of the world as i can.
if your not ok with this i understand, and your a nice person, so you will find someone.
she said she would think about it.
i asked her what her long term plans were. she had none.
we had both sworn off marriage, and children to live lives that made ourselves happy.
she said she would be ok with that.
so for her 3rd date i asked her to go with me for a week in Florida. 10 days actually.
i knew by the end of 10 days i would either want to marry her or murder her.
we went on the best vacation of her life,
so she married an adventurous guy, because thou she had not had much fun herself in life, she was always wanting to.

and who said we are staying in NY for winter?
we will go to Okeechobee, my favorite spot in FL for long term visits.

oh, and for electronics, its just getting a garmin. for coastal all you need is a depth finder and GPS charts.

 

[jukesy]

No offence buddy, but sounds like your in for a world of hurt

 

[CPseudonym]

Just to add to Woodsong's excellent post don't be surprised when the county tax man comes calling as well depending upon where it is moored.

And just to beat ya to the follow up question, yes, they drive the marinas checking registration identification in our parts. Good luck in your quest.

 

[scoobert]

i believe in CA they would. they are brutal out there. we would most likely spend the summers in Pittsburgh once we move aboard. our choice b would be NH. here on the Mohawk canal in NY they do not check the numbers. not in my area.

 

[Phil Fill]

i believe in CA they would. they are brutal out there. we would most likely spend the summers in Pittsburgh once we move aboard. our choice b would be NH. here on the Mohawk canal in NY they do not check the numbers. not in my area.

The previous reply indicated upper East Coast, and you keep replying as to the cold Northern climates. To be a live aboard in the cold/freezing climates required a bigger and more capable boat than the warmer Southern climates. Even in the warm southern climates there is still a concern as to their safety. Make darn sure getting off and on the boat can be done carrying a baby/child and/or walk to/from the boat safely. Getting out of the water even on a low floating dock can be challenging/daunting. Please make sure you read most if not all of the Live Aboard discussions, and understand that if people think you are putting you wife and/or child in danger, the marina management and/or child services might come rapping on your hull.

Again I am very much against you even thinking about being a live aboard in the colder/freezing climates.

 

[scoobert]

why does everyone think i am living in cold climates for the winter?
i will be going south.....?

 

[Codger2]

No offence buddy, but sounds like your in for a world of hurt

He's not in for a world of hurt, jukesy! He knows everything about owning a big boat and beating the tax man.

 

[scoobert]

lots of naysayers. i don't mind them, they think they have a job to do

 

[jukesy]

I'm not trying to be a naysayer bro. A lot of us on here are in pursuit of similar dreams. Myself included! But I think we're ate just trying to give you a reality check. There's a lot more to it than just buying a boat and a fish finder and running up and down the ICW. We're really here to help! Sorry if my comments seemed a bit harsh.

 

[scoobert]

i am not sure what your referring to?
checklist:
leaks
proper thru hulls with shut offs
top side leaks
bottom blisters or signs of osmosis
bottom paint
impeller
any hull soft spots
HVAC system
engine, transmission
safety systems, fire, co2, bilge pump operation bail out kit, first aid kit
steering systems
anodes, zincs
electrical systems
kitchen appliance operation
date of last diesel tank scrub
water tank scrub
pressure water system
helm controls

if i can prepare a plane for flight and do a full pre-flight checklist and catch something that 12 students and instructors missed for 83 hours, then i can find flaws in a boat.
by the way, it was the tach inspection sticker. the service was preformed, but the stick was not updated.

your talking to a pilot, and commercial truck driver. who went to school for two years of mechanics. and 6 months of welding.
unless your discussing the (pick a saying) unknown factor then i dont get it.

 

[dhmeissner]

Hi scooobert,

Are you sure a sailboat is not a better choice? I do a lot of craigslist surfing and it seems to me a nice sailboat can be had for far less than a diesel yacht. With a sailboat, an engine failure is far less catastrophic, as in, you can still go somewhere.

Here's a few of many examples:

Reduced! 50' ketch. Glass. Ctr. Cockpit Project
1976 49' Schooner Sailboat
36' Sailboat Hillyard Cutter 1950
Kettenburg K40 Sailboat

These are in Seattle, but on the east coast check the Baltimore CG.

Price on boats like these is always very negotiable. Good luck with your dream!