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Old 02-04-2017, 07:54 PM   #1
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New Federal title requirement! Strange

I bought my Hardin trawler in July. At the time it was a documented boat. We had that changed to being state titled in Washington.
When I got the new tittle and registration, the registration numbers were weird.
It was WN$ followed by 5 numbers. Both on the registration and tittle.
Yesterday went to the DMV to get this fixed, should be WN 1111 XX.
So they could fix this fine but now comes the federal regulation. All boats must now have a 12 digit HIN mine was only 11. So they assigned me a new HIN number. New tittle coming. Now I must find away to put a new permanent HIN on my hull.
I thought we are never to change a HIN number. Very strange.
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Old 02-04-2017, 08:26 PM   #2
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My boat builder assigned a HIN but did not put it on the boat. I made a small wood plaque and epoxied it on the stern. So far nobody seems to care. Any argument that somebody can grind off my plaque I would counter with a grinder does just as well on FG-AL or steel.
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Old 02-04-2017, 08:36 PM   #3
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What HIN was on the USCG Doc? Seems the USCG would require a valid HIN???
Is it possible the last (or first) digit was not completely molded into the hull?

You can do a search at this HINSEARCH site

an excerpt from them...

Validating the HIN
HIN Search will pop up a message if a HIN you enter does not follow any known format, with a hint as to what might be wrong.


Re: reissuing HIN's - There are exceptions... but I wonder if this will raise flags if/when being sold???

From the attached file...

Special considerations if third letter of a HIN is a "Z”. 
When the third digit of a HIN is a "Z," this indicates that the HIN has been state-issued or "re-tagged." In these cases, the "Z" will be preceded by the issuing state's abbreviation (e.g. "NYZ" or "FLZ"). There are a few ways this can happen. It could have been a homemade boat and its builder requested that a HIN be issued by the state; this is completely legal and correct. Such a HIN may also indicate that the vessel had been sold as "salvage" and part or most of it was refurbished and presented as a "home built" or "custom made" boat. It may not look home made, but this too is legal within certain guidelines. The important thing is that you are advised of this before you buy the vessel so you can ask any questions you may have about its history and how it came to be re-tagged.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf HIN.pdf (212.3 KB, 20 views)
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:12 PM   #4
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So they assigned me a new HIN number. New tittle coming. Now I must find away to put a new permanent HIN on my hull.
I thought we are never to change a HIN number. Very strange.
So did the auditor/DOL advise you how the new HIN should be attached to the boat? For other types of vehicles/airplanes in Washington State, the State Patrol vehicle inspectors attach an aluminized tag, with the new assigned number embossed, to the body of the vehicle. Probably not appropriate for a boat, I doubt it would hold up one season on a boat hull.

But one would think they could at least give you some guidance of what's acceptable. If you've been working with the County Auditors licensing office and they can't help you, maybe call DOL in Olympia directly. The auditor's just a licensing agent for the State DOL and may not have all the answers. I've run into that before with other issues.

Questions? Need help?
Email us: CustomerCare@dol.wa.gov
Call us: 360.902.3770
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:28 PM   #5
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Not questioning your decision but I am curious as to why you decided not to document it again?
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:09 AM   #6
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Well this is all very "tittlating". LOL
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:19 AM   #7
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A boat's HIN is its HIN. How dare a bureaucrat say otherwise?
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:20 AM   #8
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Dave, saw no advantage to being documented and my wife did not want to keep the existing name "Caroline" did not her boat named after a different woman.
The 12 characters in the HIN is a new requirement. I am doing this at Friday harbor and they were talking to Olympia the entire time. They are very concerned as they have a lot of boats in the harbor here.
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:22 AM   #9
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Documented boats can have their names changed!
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:48 PM   #10
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More re: HIN Validation / Problems

I'm guessing your problem originated due to import of Taiwan made vessel & Mfg not complying completely w/ the format in place at time of mfg / import

See the site USCG HIN Validation & Verification Guidelines

Many times a HIN is verified as an 11 character or 13
character HIN. The format may be correct with either one
digit missing or one extra digit in the production serial
number portion of the HIN.

HIN with other than 12 characters
When the State encounters HINs on boats older than 10 years
from the date of manufacture that contain any number of characters
other than 12:
Ø The State should issue a State HIN using the New (Current) Format
Ø The last four of the State HIN should be the month and year issued
to that vessel.
Ø A record of the original HIN must be made a part of the boat’s record
and the owner should retain a copy for their records and should be
advised to keep a copy aboard their boat.
Ø On boats built prior to November 1, 1972 States are not
required to issue a State HIN but may do so.
All State Issued HIN’s must use the New (Current) Format
The last four must be the month and year state HIN is issued
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
More re: HIN Validation / Problems

I'm guessing your problem originated due to import of Taiwan made vessel & Mfg not complying completely w/ the format in place at time of mfg / import

See the site USCG HIN Validation & Verification Guidelines

Many times a HIN is verified as an 11 character or 13
character HIN. The format may be correct with either one
digit missing or one extra digit in the production serial
number portion of the HIN.

HIN with other than 12 characters
When the State encounters HINs on boats older than 10 years
from the date of manufacture that contain any number of characters
other than 12:
Ø The State should issue a State HIN using the New (Current) Format
Ø The last four of the State HIN should be the month and year issued
to that vessel.
Ø A record of the original HIN must be made a part of the boat’s record
and the owner should retain a copy for their records and should be
advised to keep a copy aboard their boat.
Ø On boats built prior to November 1, 1972 States are not
required to issue a State HIN but may do so.
All State Issued HIN’s must use the New (Current) Format
The last four must be the month and year state HIN is issued
So I am older than 10 years the state is assigning a new HIN. Pretty much covers it.
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach_cat View Post
Dave, saw no advantage to being documented and my wife did not want to keep the existing name "Caroline" did not her boat named after a different woman.
The 12 characters in the HIN is a new requirement. I am doing this at Friday harbor and they were talking to Olympia the entire time. They are very concerned as they have a lot of boats in the harbor here.


Good luck with the process.
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:31 PM   #13
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So Washington State (King County) writing their own rules again and in the process screwing it up for boaters. Olympia needs to back off.....
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:38 PM   #14
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So Washington State (King County) writing their own rules again and in the process screwing it up for boaters. Olympia needs to back off.....
No actually it is the Feds doing it. This will apply to all states.
Not that I would not put it past Olympia, but the requirement is federal.

My only concern is when I go to sell and there are now 2 HINs on the boat and some person not knowing better will cause me trouble.

New tittle on its way already. Boat is now registered through 2018.
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:41 PM   #15
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I'm curious what HIN was on the documentation?
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:43 PM   #16
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No actually it is the Feds doing it. This will apply to all states.
Not that I would not put it past Olympia, but the requirement is federal.

My only concern is when I go to sell and there are now 2 HINs on the boat and some person not knowing better will cause me trouble.

New tittle on its way already. Boat is now registered through 2018.
Ed
Interesting. I document my boat so the USCG issues my paperwork. I am also from Alaska, so there is no need to register a documented vessel with the State of Alaska.
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Old 02-05-2017, 02:02 PM   #17
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The USCG HIN law requiring 12 digits has been in effect since 1983. I can find no reference to any "new" law and I do not believe that there is a "new" law. Was the boat built prior to 1983? It might have a different format. The only significant recent change to the law was that starting in 2004 builders were allowed to precede the HIN with US, to parallel developing laws in Europe, which were based on and identical to the US regulation.
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Old 02-05-2017, 02:17 PM   #18
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From the RBAW website:


Welcome to RBAW! Recreational Boating Association of Washington -Voice of Northwest Boating




Problems with Vessel Titling & Registration
RBAW recently published information in this article space regarding vessel titling and registration under the Washington State Department of Licensing’s (DOL’s) new computer system. After further investigation, and meeting with key DOL staff on January 12, 2017 RBAW is providing an update on this issue. Here’s what we learned:

The Code of Federal Regulations (33 CFR 181.25) was established back in 1972. It is a 12-digit format for Hull Identification Numbers (HINs). Federal regulations in discussion since 2010, and now mandated to be implemented in 2017 (see: 33 CFR 174.16), requires ALL State titling/registration agencies to confirm that every registered vessel has a HIN that conforms exactly to one of the three allowed formats – see this third-party web-page at http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.htm -for concise explanation of what FORMATS are allowed.

Of the roughly 240,000 registered vessels in Washington, DOL has scanned their files and identified approximately 29,000 vessel s (nearly one in eight!) that do not appear to have compliant HINs. DOL will be individually contacting each of these affected vessel owners directly to advise them of this situation, by letter or e-mail – in plenty of time to rectify the non-compliant HIN before the June 2017 registration renewal cycle – or immediately, for vessels undergoing re-titling.

What if you have a non-compliant HIN?
You’ll need to obtain a new title and registration, with a State-assigned new HIN, and pay the standard applicable fees ($21). Then you must attest (by signing the new registration) that the new HIN is properly displayed on your vessel.
Which vessel transactions are affected? When?
Any title or registration transactions, or address updates (or any other vessel transactions, excluding lienholder changes) are affected. This DOES include all registration renewals, with next cycle coming up June 2017. When such transactions are conducted, DOL’s new computer system will identify the non-compliant HIN if you haven’t gone thru the new-title process to change it already, and force re-titling and issue a new HIN.

What do vessel owners need to do?
If you receive notification that your vessel’s HIN is “non-compliant”, the vessel owner must visit a vehicle licensing office (VLO) in person. If you attempt to renew online, the system will stop you and direct you to visit a VLO in person. For these transactions, DOL does not require the old title in-hand, in order to issue the new title.

If you believe your HIN as embossed on, or attached to, the vessel’s hull does meet the exact format standards (but for example, the correct-format HIN - as seen on the vessel - is not on the title/registration due to clerical error or incorrect original reporting), please bring a photo or a pencil rubbing of your current HIN to the office, and DOL will attempt to process your transaction for you, retaining the proper HIN. If DOL made an error in its records, no fee will be charged to you.
The new HIN will typically have the state-issued prefix (first three digits of “WNZ”).
DOL will provide each recipient of a new HIN, very specific instructions where and how this new HIN must be attached to the vessel, to meet Federal requirements.
This is certainly a major undertaking for our State (and all other States), to meet this new Federal Mandate! Please assist Washington State Department of Licensing in every way you can during this fulfillment cycle – THEY are not the instigator of this new requirement!
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Old 02-05-2017, 02:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
From the RBAW website:


Welcome to RBAW! Recreational Boating Association of Washington -Voice of Northwest Boating




Problems with Vessel Titling & Registration
RBAW recently published information in this article space regarding vessel titling and registration under the Washington State Department of Licensing’s (DOL’s) new computer system. After further investigation, and meeting with key DOL staff on January 12, 2017 RBAW is providing an update on this issue. Here’s what we learned:

The Code of Federal Regulations (33 CFR 181.25) was established back in 1972. It is a 12-digit format for Hull Identification Numbers (HINs). Federal regulations in discussion since 2010, and now mandated to be implemented in 2017 (see: 33 CFR 174.16), requires ALL State titling/registration agencies to confirm that every registered vessel has a HIN that conforms exactly to one of the three allowed formats – see this third-party web-page at http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.htm -for concise explanation of what FORMATS are allowed.

Of the roughly 240,000 registered vessels in Washington, DOL has scanned their files and identified approximately 29,000 vessel s (nearly one in eight!) that do not appear to have compliant HINs. DOL will be individually contacting each of these affected vessel owners directly to advise them of this situation, by letter or e-mail – in plenty of time to rectify the non-compliant HIN before the June 2017 registration renewal cycle – or immediately, for vessels undergoing re-titling.

What if you have a non-compliant HIN?
You’ll need to obtain a new title and registration, with a State-assigned new HIN, and pay the standard applicable fees ($21). Then you must attest (by signing the new registration) that the new HIN is properly displayed on your vessel.
Which vessel transactions are affected? When?
Any title or registration transactions, or address updates (or any other vessel transactions, excluding lienholder changes) are affected. This DOES include all registration renewals, with next cycle coming up June 2017. When such transactions are conducted, DOL’s new computer system will identify the non-compliant HIN if you haven’t gone thru the new-title process to change it already, and force re-titling and issue a new HIN.

What do vessel owners need to do?
If you receive notification that your vessel’s HIN is “non-compliant”, the vessel owner must visit a vehicle licensing office (VLO) in person. If you attempt to renew online, the system will stop you and direct you to visit a VLO in person. For these transactions, DOL does not require the old title in-hand, in order to issue the new title.

If you believe your HIN as embossed on, or attached to, the vessel’s hull does meet the exact format standards (but for example, the correct-format HIN - as seen on the vessel - is not on the title/registration due to clerical error or incorrect original reporting), please bring a photo or a pencil rubbing of your current HIN to the office, and DOL will attempt to process your transaction for you, retaining the proper HIN. If DOL made an error in its records, no fee will be charged to you.
The new HIN will typically have the state-issued prefix (first three digits of “WNZ”).
DOL will provide each recipient of a new HIN, very specific instructions where and how this new HIN must be attached to the vessel, to meet Federal requirements.
This is certainly a major undertaking for our State (and all other States), to meet this new Federal Mandate! Please assist Washington State Department of Licensing in every way you can during this fulfillment cycle – THEY are not the instigator of this new requirement!

Well that certainly covers it. I was the 1st one Friday harbor had to do. They thanked me for being the guinie pig. They are worried about when all the boats in the harbor start to come in. They will be swamped.! They already get busy just from the registration.
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Old 02-05-2017, 04:48 PM   #20
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I just checked my Washington State title, and it shows an 11 digit number. I remembered that I have a photo of the HIN number, and checked it. The actual number on the boat is 12 digits + 2 letters. So I don't have to change the HIN, but it looks like I need to get the title straightened out. My thanks to Mach cat for bringing this to our attention.
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