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Old 09-02-2012, 09:17 AM   #21
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Project boats intrique me. However if you are going to put all this time and effort and $$$ make sure this is pretty much your forever boat. Otherwise you will lose interest as things become difficult or you determine the boat is not for you.

At that point you will have to give it away along with everything you bought for it.

As far as tanks go you should cut them up and clear them out, removing as much crap from the engine compartment as possible. Clean it completely and paint it fresh and new. At that point you can reinstall any equiptment that proves to be usable--replace as much as you can with new. Wiring, plumbing, pumps, waterheaters whatever.

You can use smaller tanks, leave room to double them up later if you need more range.

If the boat has leaks and damaged wood work all over, it will be a long time before it becomes a liveaboard and not a workshop.

If I were doing this much work on a boat I would perfer to have one with a more consistant build quality, such as a Grandbanks, There are lots of 42s on Yachtworld and some are priced low. It would seem you could get one for 50 or 60k.

Although you could still have a project boat, I don't think the interiors get anywhere near as bad as some of the Marine Traders. If you buy a quality boat the money you spend restoring may not be wasted.

My 2cents-- JohnP
While I agree with much of your thought...it is possible to live aboard and redo a lot of the boat as I am...unless the yard where you are prohibits major work while in the water and most don't let you live aboard when on the hard (that's a PIA anyway ).

I was astounded at the number of GBs that have dropped so far and so fast in price...there weren't but a handful when I was looking 2 years ago...but it didn't really matter to me as I don't like the layout. It would have been major surgery just to get the galley out of the main salon which as a liveaboard i just couldn't live with.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:18 AM   #22
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It has been mentioned many times before and I've been trying to get a friend of mine to listen to this logic as well,,,,,,if its a live-a-board you're after consider a houseboat. It will be a lot more user friendly than a trawler, and is usually cheaper by a good margin for the same size hull but more useable space. There are lots of options out there, Bluewater, old Pearson 43' (went to look at one a week or so ago, neat boat idea), Chris Craft made a 36/38'er that looks like a HB and they made a 50ish' catamaran that lends itself well for this purpose.

edited after going to look these up. The '80s Catalina line are the HB looking CCs in the 36-38' range. The CC catamaran is actually 57'
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:32 AM   #23
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It has been mentioned many times before and I've been trying to get a friend of mine to listen to this logic as well,,,,,,if its a live-a-board you're after consider a houseboat. It will be a lot more user friendly than a trawler, and is usually cheaper by a good margin for the same size hull but more useable space. There are lots of options out there, Bluewater, old Pearson 43' (went to look at one a week or so ago, neat boat idea), Chris Craft made a 36/38'er that looks like a HB and they made a 50ish' catamaran that lends itself well for this purpose.
Excellent advice..hard for some newcomers though to know the seakeeping advantages/disadvantages between all the options...but they need to understand their limits and not just "dream" when it comes to picking.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:56 AM   #24
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The Pearson43 I think it is called a Portsmouth is a great candidate for a liveaboard.

It has a trawler feel and perfectly ok for the type of cruising a lot of us do.

JohnP

psneeld--I agree the layout of your albin 40 with the galley down is ideal.

The salon is open as a living room so comfortable seating is possible.

GB, Used this on their 42 motoryacht and their 46-- Doubt if you could fine any of these for less than 100k

Another plus for your Albin is the centerline queen, only the later GB42s have this and again the price goes up.

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Old 09-02-2012, 10:17 AM   #25
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The Pearson43 I think it is called a Portsmouth is a great candidate for a liveaboard.

It has a trawler feel and perfectly ok for the type of cruising a lot of us do.

JohnP

psneeld--I agree the layout of your albin 40 with the galley down is ideal.

The salon is open as a living room so comfortable seating is possible.

GB, Used this on their 42 motoryacht and their 46-- Doubt if you could fine any of these for less than 100k

Another plus for your Albin is the centerline queen, only the later GB42s have this and again the price goes up.

JohnP
Thanks ...and very astute as to why I wound up with a "Buy-a-Wreck" Albin instead of many others...
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:51 AM   #26
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...if its a live-a-board you're after consider a houseboat. It will be a lot more user friendly than a trawler, and is usually cheaper by a good margin for the same size hull but more useable space.
And it will probably have gas engine(s) for dramatically lower purchase and maintenance (at the expense of operating cost), and you can sometimes use household furniture because of the squared-off spaces.

psneeld seems to have dealt with the process of living on a boat while undergoing renovation, but it's something you really need to think through - it's very hard to keep a major renovation from impacting the entire boat.

The biggest issue facing the cheap liveaboard might be acceptable moorage. The $20K bargain is competing for the same slip as the $200K Grand Banks.
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:36 AM   #27
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And it will probably have gas engine(s) for dramatically lower purchase and maintenance (at the expense of operating cost), and you can sometimes use household furniture because of the squared-off spaces.

psneeld seems to have dealt with the process of living on a boat while undergoing renovation, but it's something you really need to think through - it's very hard to keep a major renovation from impacting the entire boat.

The biggest issue facing the cheap liveaboard might be acceptable moorage. The $20K bargain is competing for the same slip as the $200K Grand Banks.
True...but the same goes for a house..I've been through both and yes flexibility is the key.

You took the words out of my mouth about the appliances and furniture!

Most people see trawlers/sailboats and dream of tropical islands when the reality is that 90 or better percent will never venture more than a couple hundred miles from their dirt roots.
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Old 09-02-2012, 12:04 PM   #28
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Project boats intrique me. However if you are going to put all this time and effort and $$$ make sure this is pretty much your forever boat. Otherwise you will lose interest as things become difficult or you determine the boat is not for you.

At that point you will have to give it away along with everything you bought for it.

As far as tanks go you should cut them up and clear them out, removing as much crap from the engine compartment as possible. Clean it completely and paint it fresh and new. At that point you can reinstall any equiptment that proves to be usable--replace as much as you can with new. Wiring, plumbing, pumps, waterheaters whatever.

You can use smaller tanks, leave room to double them up later if you need more range.

If the boat has leaks and damaged wood work all over, it will be a long time before it becomes a liveaboard and not a workshop.

If I were doing this much work on a boat I would perfer to have one with a more consistant build quality, such as a Grandbanks, There are lots of 42s on Yachtworld and some are priced low. It would seem you could get one for 50 or 60k.

Although you could still have a project boat, I don't think the interiors get anywhere near as bad as some of the Marine Traders. If you buy a quality boat the money you spend restoring may not be wasted.

My 2cents-- JohnP
All very good advice.

The PO of my boat installed new tanks and left the old ones. I cut them up and redid the entire bilge, including plumbing, electric, paint, shelves, etc. Glad I did for my personnal enjoyment and major selling point when the time comes.
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:05 PM   #29
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This idea of chopping a hole in the hull sounds like the MOABI (mother of all bad ideas).

You are on the hard racking up yard fees. If you are living aboard you are climbing a PITA ladder. The tank(s) surely sit on a structural member. The exterior will involve cutting at least one rub rail. The resulting patch will never equal the original - and it will be obvious from the outside. There is no way IMO this will be a success.

It's better to R&R an engine (and clean up the ER). Or add a hatch over the tank (has issues as well but might add some value).

Cheaper approach would be remove baffles and insert bladder. Ghetto approach is to POR15 the interior of the tank.

Moving the tank location is hugely problematic. . Will affect trim at the very least. I can't decide if this is worse than chopping a hole in the hull, but at least you could do it in the water.

Or remove the fuel tanks completely and put in a wine cellar!
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:30 PM   #30
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FYI when the tanks come out of the hull via a cutout it is in the bottom not in the hull side. Depending on the level of finish to the hull exterior it may not even be visible through the normally rough texture of antifouling paint when completed. It is a little hard to wrap your head around but consider if you accidently knocked a hole in your otherwise good boat. You wouldn't throw it away you would fix it. Same goes for a hole someone intentionally puts in a boat. Fixed properly it does the job

I agree with the comments that a houseboat would probably better for what the OP has stated are his needs but when I took a look earlier today on Yachtworld (searched houseboats 35 to 45 feet $15K to $35K) most were twin gas stern-drive. That is all good except the extra maintenance of risers and manifolds every five to seven years and in water storage of stern-drives (they make really good anodes). If he could find a single or twin freshwater cooled gas or diesel inboard V-drive that would knock out a large part of the maintenance costs and provide the benefits stated by previous posters.
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Old 09-02-2012, 02:07 PM   #31
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This idea of chopping a hole in the hull sounds like the MOABI (mother of all bad ideas)...
I agree, but some people think otherwise. Marin had mentioned this before.

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Old 09-02-2012, 03:18 PM   #32
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For those of us with not greatly constructed 1980's vintage trawlers...it may be the way to go...It's a way we can inspect and improve stringers and ribs or whatever structure you wish to call them in a glass boat if they are saturated/rotten.

The resulting patch if done correctly will be way stronger and if epoxy or vinylester used be more resistive to hydrolysis/blistering than the original hull.
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Old 09-02-2012, 03:37 PM   #33
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I was looking at Defevers for a while and nearly all had badly rusted if not leaking tanks. There was a place in Ft L'dale that "specialized" in iron tank replacement. They charged $15K and that covered everything. They took them out through the side and supposedly you weren't able to tell the side had ever been altered. I can't remember if they included painting/gelcoating the hull in the $15k or not (for some reason I want to say it did up to a certain size).
I agree that I'd pull the engines before I shelled out that kind of money to have the hull chopped on. Then you can spruce things up in the ER a lot easier. I'd probably go back with 2 75 gal tanks and a 40 gal day tank if I didn't plan to use the boat for passagemaking.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:12 PM   #34
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old trawler question

The Marine Trader trawler referred to is mine. It has recently been surveyed by a prospective buyer who was not able to complete the deal. The boat needs interior walls replaced and cabin-deck seam sealed. The survey indicated "evidence of fuel weepage from the port tank"; however, there has never been fuel in the bilge and no odor of fuel in the engine room. I have a surveyor coming for a second opinion. I believe this "evidende" is rain water leakage around the fuel filler hose. The decks are solid, the lectrical system was rated excellent, the keel and running gear are perfect, the cutlass bearing is perfect, the main engine runs flawlessly all the time, I recently had the starter rebuilt, the genset runs flawlessly and I just replaced the fresh water pump ($1100.) because I didn't like the way it looked or sounded and didn't want to sell the boat to someone with a potentially faulty pump. The canvas was all new last year. The refrigerator was replaced last year with one made in Italy, which is fantastic, the hot water heater was replaced last year. There is an 8 ft dinghy on deck with a 10 hp Nissan outboard with 10 hours on it. So, you ask, why the low price? I am retiring in 3 months due to health reasons and need to seel the boat to pay off debt. The low price is a reflection of work needing to be done, and for a quick sale. I am nothing if not brutally honest about my boat. Check it out on craigslist. Great buy for someone with skills which I do not have, and with the energy to do the work which I do not have.
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:02 AM   #35
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After all is said and done: The ONLY reasons I purchase any used product of substantial expense (with or without cash):

1. Its design fills my needs and desires
2. It has upside value
3. It will not take too much effort, time, further-investment to be made correct if it has items needing attention

As it apperas you know little about boats and other marine doings: I recommend that you had better get people who know boats to fully check out the one you buy before you buy it... and... follow 1 thru 3 above - - IMHO!
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:30 AM   #36
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...., leaks where the topside mounts to the deck, so that walls will need to be torn out, and replaced. Supposedly, $5k will do the trick........also, heard about iron tanks, but $5k ish will get me a alt to pulling tanks thru a hole in the hull. Where does the 50-150 numbers come from, assuming good hull core????
I think you are being very optimistic in your "5k" assumptions. If you want a boat rebuilding project, this could do it for you. If you want a boat you can start using right away, I'm thinking you need to keep looking.

For every obvious problem in an old or "needs work" boat there will be a bazillion hidden problems you'll find when you start fixing the obvious ones. Very easy in these cases to end up spending more in time, effort, and money than you'd have spent getting a decent boat you could have been using from the outset, as opposed to perhaps years of "restoring" your bargain boat.
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Old 09-24-2012, 08:07 AM   #37
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I just replaced the fresh water pump ($1100.)
What kind of freshwater pump do you have?
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:13 AM   #38
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If it's truly going to be a dock condo only, some of the stated issues go away. On the other hand, as stated earlier, there are some very cool older Chris Craft, Hatteras and the like that would make much better live aboards. I'd forget the "trawler image" if the objective is to tie it fast to the dock most of the time. Twins, gas, who cares if it's only going to travel from the launch basin to the slip once in a while. I'm not sure if this is a trunk cabin boat, but if dock condo is the objective a trunk cabin boat with virtually no outside living space might not be the best choice...
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:28 PM   #39
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What kind of freshwater pump do you have?
Ditto, I replaced mine in an hour for $130 and now have rockstar water pressure.
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:12 AM   #40
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"Ghetto approach is to POR15 the interior of the tank."

The small aircraft folks have internal tank coatings, as do many motorcycle dealers , that are designed for fuel .

Plastic replacement tanks are probably best choice as they are smaller , so only required fuel can be kept aboard . Cheap too.
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