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Old 12-17-2014, 08:15 AM   #1
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Need advise on painting

We are considering painting our 1989 MT 38 from the deck up. Found a very reputable company with a great track record willing to do the work this winter. His price is within the budget (20 thousand) we set aside. We love the boat and plan to keep her though our retirement, that is why we were considering painting. Her deck is factory fiberglass , no teak. Fiberglass is all in good condition. There is some cosmetic damage. That is the dilemma. Is it worth the money to paint an old boat, or just hire a crew and compound and wax??
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Old 12-17-2014, 08:19 AM   #2
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If you decide to take on the work yourself, I'm a few towns south of you. Give a shout if you need an extra hand!
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Old 12-17-2014, 08:33 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Skinny View Post
If you decide to take on the work yourself, I'm a few towns south of you. Give a shout if you need an extra hand!
My MT is a 1989 I am going through the same thing trying to figure out what direction to go hire it out or attempt it myself

I am a few states south if I decide to do it myself
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:50 AM   #4
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Greetings,
Mr. R. We are in the final stages of doing a complete (hull and house) repaint of our vessel. She was in dire need of a "freshen-up" and was too far gone for a simple polish and buff job. After being taken (literally robbed) for many, many $$ by two separate contractors we elected to finish the job ourselves.
In our case, it was well worth the effort. She does NOT look like new but she's all one color and all the nicks, cracks and blemishes have been addressed and sealed. We elected to use Alexseal paint with Alexseal fairing compounds. Not the easiest or cheapest product for US to work with but we feel, well worth the effort and expense.
As you're probably aware, the preparation work is 90% of the job. We removed as much hardware as possible/feasible to both allow more complete paint coverage AND to renew bedding compounds (the re-bedding is an added bonus IMO). Another benefit is we were able to remove redundant snaps and fittings (old aerial mounts for example) and patch and seal those areas and voids left by their removal.
Could have taken Mr. skinny up on his offer of assistance if we'd only know about it earlier. Thanks anyway Mr. S.
Any questions? Feel free to PM me @TF.
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Old 12-17-2014, 11:23 AM   #5
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If you send a turbine powered aircraft to pick me up, I'd be more than happy to come down and help out


Offer stands to anyone in the greater Wilmington, NC area. I'm always down to turn some wrenches.
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Old 12-17-2014, 11:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
Is it worth the money to paint an old boat, or just hire a crew and compound and wax??
As the boat ages there comes a time when compound and wax will not help. Not saying you're there, but once oxidation reaches through the gelcoat (as i understand it), it won't shine back up. I'm sure someone more knowledgable can correct me about why it happens.

We've started looking into options ourselves knowing we will need to paint in a few years. So far what I've learned is that the paint will have a limited lifespan and that it will scratch easier than gelcoat. Also darker colors will not last as long as lighter ones.

Harry
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Old 12-17-2014, 03:26 PM   #7
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I would fix the cosmetic areas, compound/wax then invest the money left over. See how it looks when you're done. How far oxidized is it?

It is hard to blend old and new gelcoat. Sometimes it looks great when you're done but the old vs. new usually fade at a different rate so after a few years the repairs may be noticeable but again it's almost a 30 year old boat. We repainted/re-gelcoated Hobo in 2011/2012. No regrets and she looks great but I am still over protective as we get close to other boats, docks, dinghies tied along side, etc. I would see how the new wax job looks and at the same time you'll be repairing some of the stuff that would have to be repaired prior to painting anyway.
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:20 PM   #8
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Thanks for the advice. Will get it serious consideration. Really enjoy the forum and have recommended it to others. Ron ,
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:11 AM   #9
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The 20 k seems reasonable, Is it worth it depends on how much 20k means to you. A good LP paint job will last without maintenance except washing at least 10 years in a light color. Alwgrip, Sterling, and Alexseal are at least as scratch resistant as Gel coat. They can also be repaired with better color match than gelcoat. The only caveat is these water tight finishes are not good to use on wood subject to water intrusion. They develop blisters from trapped moisture coming to the surface of the wood underneath the paint. Wood doors and hatches have to be seals on all sides. Cracks that develop over time in wood doors need to be dealt with quickly. Will deck hardware be removed and rebedded for that price?
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:42 PM   #10
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You can try using Alexseal, it is one of the best paints for boats out there.
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Old 12-18-2014, 09:10 PM   #11
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We have been doing some painting on ours . It's not perfect but it turned out pretty good .Ours was a work boat in the beginning and had been painted before . The more time you can spend on prep makes a huge difference . Havung a good sander with vacuum is a plus .We still have a bunch to do . If you have a good dry place with cover I would do it myself and save the bucks . Once the prep is done the paint goes really quick . We are painting sections at a time just because that works best for us . It's not for everyone but we do all our own work .
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:05 PM   #12
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... these water tight finishes are not good to use on wood subject to water intrusion. They develop blisters from trapped moisture coming to the surface of the wood underneath the paint. Wood doors and hatches have to be seals on all sides.
Scary, what`s the remedy once that happens. Some OP painted the varnished teak transom on my IG (just teak planks over f/g) and it developed sporadic bubbles. I had it repainted, same result.
I wanted to remove the paint and varnish the teak but several shipwrights said once it`s painted, it`s painted, too hard going back.
Is there a paint that accommodates moisture and won`t bubble? If not, is the teak thick enough for an enthusiastic strip and sand?
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Old 12-19-2014, 02:46 AM   #13
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painting my Marine Trader 41

I painted my 1981 Marine Trader 41 last spring. I painted all my topsides including my gunwale. and my deck. I used Interlux Brightside on all vertical surefaces and perfection on horizontal surfaces and interdeck on the deck. I sanded with 80 grit, faired with interlux 2 part epoxy, three coats of primer with 100 grit and 2 coats of brightside, 200 grit on the first coat. Roll and tip on the last coat. Using interlux 333 flowing liquid to prevent sagging and to compensate for tempreature differences durring the job is critical.

I did the job in three major sections, flybridge, house, gunwale/horizontal surfaces. Contact the interlux website they were a great help. I did this job under a full winter cover. It cost about $2000. Took about 4 months. But I had a day job and did the job before or after work depending on the shift I was on.

The inner gunwale was a little tricky because it had crazing. I had to grind down the fibeglass, use thin veil, 2 part epoxy to fair and then primer and top coat.
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Old 12-19-2014, 09:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
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I painted my 1981 Marine Trader 41 last spring. I painted all my topsides including my gunwale. and my deck. I used Interlux Brightside on all vertical surefaces and perfection on horizontal surfaces and interdeck on the deck. I sanded with 80 grit, faired with interlux 2 part epoxy, three coats of primer with 100 grit and 2 coats of brightside, 200 grit on the first coat. Roll and tip on the last coat. Using interlux 333 flowing liquid to prevent sagging and to compensate for tempreature differences durring the job is critical.

I did the job in three major sections, flybridge, house, gunwale/horizontal surfaces. Contact the interlux website they were a great help. I did this job under a full winter cover. It cost about $2000. Took about 4 months. But I had a day job and did the job before or after work depending on the shift I was on.

The inner gunwale was a little tricky because it had crazing. I had to grind down the fibeglass, use thin veil, 2 part epoxy to fair and then primer and top coat.
Do you have Pictures of the finished work?
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Old 12-19-2014, 10:36 AM   #15
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If you sand deep enough you can varnish over paint

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Scary, what`s the remedy once that happens. Some OP painted the varnished teak transom on my IG (just teak planks over f/g) and it developed sporadic bubbles. I had it repainted, same result.
I wanted to remove the paint and varnish the teak but several shipwrights said once it`s painted, it`s painted, too hard going back.
Is there a paint that accommodates moisture and won`t bubble? If not, is the teak thick enough for an enthusiastic strip and sand?
The reason you were told once painted you can't go back is because the grain on Teak and Mahogany is so open and deep. It will take a lot of sanding to get below the pigment of the old paint. It is also very easy to turn your planks into a wavy mess sanding that deep without using a long board or a lot of careful sanding. Most of the boats I refinish I spend a great deal of time faring bad sanding. When you sand teak you bring the natural teak oil to the surface of the wood, wipe the teak with denatured alcohol before applying any finish. Oil based paint, and varnish are more tolerant of moisture than LP's. It is important to understand where the moisture is coming from and stop it if possible. In a perfect world all surfaces of anything wood would be coated with the same amount of finish. I have doors on my boat that warp depending on humidity because the LP on the out side is water tight but the Varnish on the inside is not. You could try sanding and penetrating the transom with Smiths penetrating epoxy followed by a coat of West 105, sanded with 220 and then prime, paint or start your varnish. Note that I said start your varnish, epoxy has no UV protection so you will still need 8 coats or so of varnish over the epoxy. The Smiths will darken your teak so you may want to do a test spot to see if you like the results. I think this will help with your blisters.
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Old 12-23-2014, 01:49 PM   #16
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Personally, I look at paint like a 'last resort'. IMHO the factors are:

1) Is the oxidation too deep into the gel coat to bring back with wet sanding?

2) Are there too many small cosmetic repairs which are visible?

In either of these cases there is no amount of wet sanding that will bring the gelcoat back to an acceptable level. If this is the case, then it's time to paint.

If I'm painting, then I'm definitely getting every cosmetic blemish fixed first.

I wouldn't do a wet sand restore THEN decide to paint that is crazy. Painting will also dictate how much time you spend on the cosmetic repairs and whether you bother to match the gelcoat.

Just one mans opinion.
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Old 12-23-2014, 09:13 PM   #17
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Well, you've a lot of interesting options above. You could go to Home Depot or Lowes, get a can, not the aerosol spray, but a can of Gel Gloss. It is an acrylic marble cleaner. Leaves no residue. Pick a place, and hand shine away. See what you come up with. Works on aircraft, boats, cars, you name it. Now if you have to paint, 20K is big money. I just finished my 53 Hatteras, and total I spent was less than $5,000, materials included, and that is hiring out some labor. The product: Interlux Perfections Plus. The method: I use brush only. A cheap throwaway brush called the "Fooler." Now this product does not require the prep, and the rep rep, wipe and rewiipe, and all the sequences that make Awlgrip, Awlgrip 2000, and Alexseal, so popular with billable time boatyards. But I am quite sure you will be happy with the results, if only you will learn the product application finesse first. I am quite sure you will be happy with the results. I have painted an 18' catamaran prep to finish in one day, a fancy bicycle frame, a Gulfstream Sun Voyager RV, all with a brush, and all with this product. If I can post a photo or two here, it may help. You can spray this product, but I never have. I am quite sure Perfections Plus was developed for the rest of us, and I began painting boats for Chris Craft in 1969.
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:05 PM   #18
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https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee...813487842.html

Above is a ling to an ad on Craigslist with the vessel painted from the rub rail up with Perfections Plus, by brush. I know you can't see the finish closeup in photos, but you can get the general idea. This is a first class paint job for less than $5000. So you might want to give it a try. I seldom use a primer with this paint. I also have painted a fleet of TowBoatUS boats with this paint.
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Old 12-24-2014, 01:11 AM   #19
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Perfection Plus

I've used Perfection Plus both by brush and spray. It's a good paint and maybe the best finish for a wood boat. It hasn't held up more than five years or so without showing serious signs of aging. I sprayed a 57' Chris with it two years ago. It's showing chalking and has lost at least half of it's gloss at this point. It is in a covered berth that get's afternoon sun on the port side. I just looked at it yesterday and I was a little disappointed with the loss of gloss on the port side. I brushed the cabin top, it is always in the shade and still looks pretty good. Nothing like a LP, not even close when it comes to gloss. I have always used at least two coats of primer on wood.
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Old 12-24-2014, 01:26 AM   #20
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Benjamin Moore alkaline urethane I paint it every year as soon as the boat comes out. It wipes away all the fender rash or dings of the year with a quick sanding and roll the paint out. Take 2 hrs and costs 50 dollars. The paint is forgiving and I apply if it is above freezing and the humidity is not super high. The hull is steel.
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