Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-19-2017, 07:17 PM   #81
Senior Member
 
Martin J's Avatar
 
City: Mt Crested Butte
Country: USA
Vessel Name: St Christopher
Vessel Model: Cheoy Lee 50ft tri-cabin
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 173
Gotta love stealth technology, probably slinking around with no active radar reflector.

The end result tboned while passing ahead of a right of way boat, check the 1st point of impact and the impact then carried aft into the bridge etc. Sadly somebody lost the plot onj the USS.
__________________
Advertisement

Martin J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 07:25 PM   #82
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsfish View Post
Ski

Are you saying there are no leaks in the US Navy?
There are on that vessel.

But seriously, what is stopping the crew of the merchant vessel talking to whomever they want about what happened - why are we not hearing that?
__________________

menzies is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 07:51 PM   #83
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,515
For all those that are worried about cover ups or not hanging anyone responsible on the Navy side, you haven't kept up with Navy accidents for decades.

If you dont think the penalties are severe enough...think long and hard unless you have ever been in a similar situation...responsible for lives...not just money. And the ultimate future of that officer.

Lots of chest beating when I challenge those chests.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 08:21 PM   #84
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: New York, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
For all those that are worried about cover ups or not hanging anyone responsible on the Navy side, you haven't kept up with Navy accidents for decades.

If you dont think the penalties are severe enough...think long and hard unless you have ever been in a similar situation...responsible for lives...not just money. And the ultimate future of that officer.

Lots of chest beating when I challenge those chests.

Certainly true.

It's a tragedy for all involved.
__________________
M/Y Dauntless, New York
a Kadey Krogen 42 Currently https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Blog: https://dauntlessatsea.com
Find us: https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 09:04 AM   #85
Senior Member
 
Portage_Bay's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: United States
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 40 Tri-cabin
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 110
From gCaptain's Capt John Konrad

The USS Fitzgerald Is At Fault. This Is Why.
Portage_Bay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 09:40 AM   #86
Senior Member
 
Martin J's Avatar
 
City: Mt Crested Butte
Country: USA
Vessel Name: St Christopher
Vessel Model: Cheoy Lee 50ft tri-cabin
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 173
Great info

A truely fascinating and well written article. Explains well the problems and thought patterns of the U.S. Navy Vs the Merchant Marine. Always wondered why the navy has so many collisions.

Many thanks for posting it.
Martin J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 09:47 AM   #87
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Portage_Bay View Post
From gCaptain's Capt John Konrad

The USS Fitzgerald Is At Fault. This Is Why.
The surprise in that analysis is disclosure that the Navy officers have to achieve only 90% on their COLREG examinations.
The COLREGS are not that obscure, not difficult to understand, and with the level of responsibility of officers on a Navy Destroyer, surely a 100% level of understanding should be required.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 10:29 AM   #88
Veteran Member
 
City: Woodland Hills, CA
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsfish View Post
Scott

I couldn't hope for anyone more fair to be a judge of me and also be one of my peers at the same time.
Is that like having only cops judge other cops in misconduct cases? That seems a little too chummy for my liking and has, in the past, resulted in peers being unwilling to punish peers. It would certainly be good for the accused though......
Woodland Hills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 10:40 AM   #89
Guru
 
Hawgwash's Avatar
 
City: Sidney
Country: Canada
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Portage_Bay;
From gCaptain's Capt John Konrad
The USS Fitzgerald Is At Fault. This Is Why.
From one line in there when discussing "eyes" I was reminded of a comment last year that, until corrected, I will credit to Twisted Tree, "look out the damn window."
Hawgwash is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 11:01 AM   #90
Senior Member
 
City: Fairport
Country: United States
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 125
If your organization is singularly designed to fight battles, then the occasional collision is acceptable. In spite of all the rhetoric, the US Navy has lots of labor to replace captains, lots of $ to make repairs, and frankly, doesn't really need to care what we think.
With this in mind, not answering the VHF in a timely fashion, talking Navy-speak/gibberish, operating with lights out (or even disguise lighting), no AIS Tx, and weird course behavior become understandable, if not always acceptable to us. It will all remain acceptable to them.
diver dave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 11:06 AM   #91
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,515
Not sure about upper level licenses, but lower level licenses only require 90% on Navrules also.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 11:10 AM   #92
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
Is that like having only cops judge other cops in misconduct cases? That seems a little too chummy for my liking and has, in the past, resulted in peers being unwilling to punish peers. It would certainly be good for the accused though......
In any profession, the true pros require a higher standard of their peers than the usual....isnt our justice system supoosed to be a jury of your peers? Often in the military, you are better off in civilian court.

But every profession has occuoants with titles and less than perfect morals.

The Navy is very quick to relieve Commanding Officers, often when there is doubt the CO was truely responsible. Politically correct hasnt been as invasive in the Merchant ranks historically, but seems to be catching up.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 11:24 AM   #93
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Not sure about upper level licenses, but lower level licenses only require 90% on Navrules also.
Wifey B: 90% on any test is actually a very high standard. Depending on test taking ability, many will miss 5-10% on material they know thoroughly. There are very few professions that require scores that high. Also, some of those best in testing may not be as skilled at applying knowledge. In terms of Col-Regs, some may get bogged down in minutia and overlook the first responsibility of avoiding an accident while in a deep discussion of who is right under the regs.

I agree with one statement made by the writer and that is that there's almost definitely some guilt on the part of both parties. I don't buy however that he has all the details and the cause totally figured out at this point with many key facts still missing.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 11:26 AM   #94
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
In any profession, the true pros require a higher standard of their peers than the usual....isnt our justice system supoosed to be a jury of your peers? Often in the military, you are better off in civilian court.

But every profession has occuoants with titles and less than perfect morals.

The Navy is very quick to relieve Commanding Officers, often when there is doubt the CO was truely responsible. Politically correct hasnt been as invasive in the Merchant ranks historically, but seems to be catching up.
Just remember that nearly 50% of all doctors rank in the bottom half of their profession. Same with lawyers, teachers. Just meeting the minimum qualifications isn't what it's really all about.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 11:32 AM   #95
Guru
 
Hawgwash's Avatar
 
City: Sidney
Country: Canada
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,194
In this case, at what point do we start hearing the words "classified" and "national security"?
Hawgwash is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 11:40 AM   #96
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,515
Depends if there is any "classified" pertinent info or not.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 11:54 AM   #97
Guru
 
kthoennes's Avatar
 
City: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Xanadu
Vessel Model: Mainship 37 Motor Yacht
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Portage_Bay View Post
From gCaptain's Capt John Konrad

The USS Fitzgerald Is At Fault. This Is Why.
Wow, the video linked in that article is really impressive -- the turning radius or responsiveness of that class of destroyer. Amazing how fast a big ship like that comes around.
kthoennes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 01:28 PM   #98
Guru
 
LarryM's Avatar
 
City: League City, TX
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Pelago
Vessel Model: Wellcraft 3300 Coastal
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
Wifey B: 90% on any test is actually a very high standard. Depending on test taking ability, many will miss 5-10% on material they know thoroughly. There are very few professions that require scores that high. Also, some of those best in testing may not be as skilled at applying knowledge. In terms of Col-Regs, some may get bogged down in minutia and overlook the first responsibility of avoiding an accident while in a deep discussion of who is right under the regs.
Here is an interesting bit of FAA Data showing the Pass Rate and Average Score for various FAA Written Knowledge Tests. The latest data are from 2014. 2015/2016/2017 are not readily available.

Here's the link.

I thought this might help illustrate how high a 90% pass/fail threshold really is.

2014 Airmen Knowledge Tests
Total Volume - 129,204

Volume, Pass Rate/Average Score

Air Transport Pilot Airplane (14 CFR part 121)
25,610, 92.67%/85.56%

Air Transport Pilot Airplane (14 CFR part 135)
1,644, 86.86%/79.75%

Commercial Pilot Airplane
8,322, 96.60%/86.87%

The actual pass/fail threshold for FAA Airmen Knowledge Tests is 70%.
__________________
Larry
M/V Pelago
LarryM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 08:28 PM   #99
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 10,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryM View Post
Here is an interesting bit of FAA Data showing the Pass Rate and Average Score for various FAA Written Knowledge Tests. The latest data are from 2014. 2015/2016/2017 are not readily available.

Here's the link.

I thought this might help illustrate how high a 90% pass/fail threshold really is.

2014 Airmen Knowledge Tests
Total Volume - 129,204

Volume, Pass Rate/Average Score

Air Transport Pilot Airplane (14 CFR part 121)
25,610, 92.67%/85.56%

Air Transport Pilot Airplane (14 CFR part 135)
1,644, 86.86%/79.75%

Commercial Pilot Airplane
8,322, 96.60%/86.87%

The actual pass/fail threshold for FAA Airmen Knowledge Tests is 70%.
Wifey B: 70% is the pass rate in most schools and is for most professions that have to pass tests.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 08:29 PM   #100
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: New York, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Portage_Bay View Post
From gCaptain's Capt John Konrad

The USS Fitzgerald Is At Fault. This Is Why.
good article, thanks for posting.

Also explains inability of the Crystal to make a quicker stop.
__________________

__________________
M/Y Dauntless, New York
a Kadey Krogen 42 Currently https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Blog: https://dauntlessatsea.com
Find us: https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012