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Old 06-10-2016, 09:32 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post

Why do so many posters, when asked which 1 choice out of 3 would they pick, offer instead offer up choice 4, 5, 6 or 7? I get that some might not like choices offered for whatever reason, but the OP is pretty adamant that he has narrowed it down to THESE THREE BOATS.
Because knowledge and options in life are a good thing, can't hardly have too much of either.
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Old 06-10-2016, 09:52 AM   #22
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The decision matrix does not develop criteria as much as weigh them against the alternatives. It helps one measure how well each boat meets the criteria.
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Old 06-10-2016, 09:59 AM   #23
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Ok, now it's comedic.
The OP has not said "these are the only boats I have ever seen in my life."

He may well have 37 friends with 52 completely different boats that he has intimate knowledge of.

Or, heaven forbid, maybe he just doesn't care so much about most things;
"Trawler me on the ICW and a bit on the coast, the rest is fluff."
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Old 06-10-2016, 10:02 AM   #24
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does either one have cored vs solid bottom?
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Old 06-10-2016, 10:19 AM   #25
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Been running 8.2 Detroits for ten years. Currently at about 1500 hours. Not a single problem....ever. They were not great street engines, in part because the injector rack got a lot of movement and wear, and the early engines had a head gasket issue which was addressed with larger diameter head bolts and greater clamping force. A lot of dock talk here and on boatdiesel that's not backed up with experience. Take a look at failures on Lehmans, Perkins Cats just on this board....plenty of head gaskets, endless injection problems....and associated cost.

Most of the time I run the engines at rpm for hull speed plus. When I need to get out of rough water or make a bridge opening I push them up. Guaranteed best in class fuel economy, no leaks, no failures, no cooling issues, no oil consumption, no kidding. They start after winter layup the very instant the start button is depressed. Besides that the four stroke (not 2-stroke) V8 has the best exhaust sound around....low, smooth and quiet V-8 rumble. At high hours they might need a rack tune up.... bet on these other engines needing new injection pumps even sooner. In my experience, the dock talk rep is a flat out crock perpetuated by people who don't personally run them in boats.

Before buying the boat I spoke with an old timer engineer at Johnson and Towers who actually worked on the marinization project for Detroit. Their view was that the 220/250 HP engines in pleasure boat operation was a gem. The 300 HP intercooled version in fish killer hulls not so much, as it was approaching the 5 pounds in a 4 pound bag category....just like the high horsepower other brands....and they were routinely run against the pins on the fishing boatts. Why? because the head gasket issue started to come into play (even with the larger head bolts).

Give me an 8.2 any day over any of its contemporaries. Buy the Sabre, you won't be sorry. Quality, modern boat with a great, absolutely reliable engine (assuming it has the big head bolts). Contact me off-line if you want more first hand info on the 8.2.
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Old 06-10-2016, 10:29 AM   #26
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s-p glad you have good experience with those engines but how do you recommend the OP determine head bolt size and how hard the engines were run?
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Old 06-10-2016, 10:30 AM   #27
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Back to the op I think I would keep looking. there are many boats on the market.
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Old 06-10-2016, 11:23 AM   #28
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s-p glad you have good experience with those engines but how do you recommend the OP determine head bolt size and how hard the engines were run?
The big bolts were introduced on the production line in the mid-80s at a specific engine serial number...I can look it up, or the OP can contact Detroit. If the boat had an engine change and an older engine was installed, the heads will be stamped with a code indicating the modification (if completed). All remanufactured engines leaving the factory after the mod date would have the change and the stamp. When I bought our boat, I contacted Detroit, and they sent me the entire warranty history on each engine.

If a head gasket is blown, it will be obvious. If it ain't....it ain't. If it's running well and not leaking, there's no reason to think that it's about to do so...head gasket blow outs are not like that. If it's a 220 or 250 HP engine....it's non-issue in the first place. If the boat is as nice as indicated, there should be complete records that would show a gasket change. If suspicious, look for marred paint on manifold bolts and probably head bolts. (But unlikely that someone would go around and touch up every bolt head. And even then you can see the touchups).

I had an oil analysis done prior to purchase, which came back clean. Get a full engine survey if still concerned after looking around the engine room and running the boat. The bottom end of this engine is hell for stout. The heads are the same technology as used for 50+ years on the 2-strokes. The only serious problem they ever had was the head gasket. Plenty of examples of head gasket issues (and other very expensive problems) documented on this board on other makes.


Not five days ago I ran our 8.2s at 2700 rpm (3000 max) for an hour to meet a bridge opening. No leaks, no oil burn, no issues. Big displacement, high torque, low fuel burn...a cakewalk. Try that with some of the lumps in these old trawlers.


PS Research the Cat 3126 (in the Jefferson)....
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Old 06-10-2016, 01:03 PM   #29
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Heck, I didn't know the 8.2 was a four stroke! I automatically lumped it in with thinking all Detroit diesels are two stroke. Thank you for the education.


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Old 06-10-2016, 01:09 PM   #30
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Heck, I didn't know the 8.2 was a four stroke! I automatically lumped it in with thinking all Detroit diesels are two stroke. Thank you for the education.
Keith, I asked Ski about 2 strokes a while back and got...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC;
DD four strokes: 8.2, series 50, series 60.

DD two strokes: Anything 53, 71, 92, 110, 149. Those numbers are the cubic inch per cylinder, and came in lots of cylinder counts. Some in-line, some vee block.

For example, a 71 could be 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6cyl inline. And 6, 8, 12, 16 and 24 cyl vee block.

6-71 inline
6V-71 vee block
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Old 06-10-2016, 01:46 PM   #31
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Been running 8.2 Detroits for ten years. Currently at about 1500 hours. Not a single problem....ever.
I have zero to give to this thread except; a pal with a 1990 42 Canoe Cove, has 4200 hours on his twin 8.2TIs and like you, has had not one problem in 25 years. He religiously follows the manual and once a year has the mechanic who installed them look and listen. That's it.
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Old 06-10-2016, 01:53 PM   #32
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Yes, except for the "overblown" head gasket reputation, it's really a nice, solid package. Quiet, big displacement for a lot of grunt, honestly best in class fuel specifics, leak free, and a very mellow exhaust sound to boot. Perfect size for the 35-45' semi-displacement hull....efficient at slow speed with enough power in our 44' hull to make a solid 16+ knots when I want it on occasion...I settle for 13-14 at slightly reduced rpm. Most 8'2s are attached to a Twin Disk transmission....another consideration in drive train selection. Older twin intercooled turbo diesels net an over fueled, off-boost slobbering pig at hull speed... If you want to take the 8.2 from 250 to 220 and arguably gain a little more efficiency...simply downsize the injectors....that's the only difference. I have an unused stockpile of 8.2 spares taking up space in my garage. Haven't touched a one of them in ten years.
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Old 06-10-2016, 02:00 PM   #33
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We had a DD/J&T 8.2T in our '87 Mainship III. Think it was 220-hp. Had the recall for head-bolt replacement. Ran like a champ during our tenure.


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Old 06-10-2016, 02:30 PM   #34
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Are we about to have another trawler on the Potomac! I imagine we have probably run into each other - I see you are in Woodbridge, and we keep our Tug on the Occoquan. Anyway, just a few thoughts on the boats. First is that one is Canadian flagged. Not sure what that means in terms of import. Second, the Sabre claims it can be run at 15 knots. Our boat can also hit 15, but you are not going to want to run it at those speeds, wide open, very often if at all. Just because it can hit a certain speed, doesn't mean it will like running wide open. Lastly, if you plan to run it in our area for any length of time, as opposed to the ICW trips you mentioned, keep draft in mind. With a draft of about 3.5 feet, we are at just about the most we would be comfortable for local haunts like Belmont. See you on the river!
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