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Old 07-26-2018, 03:57 AM   #21
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Why not use an AGM battery? I have had mine in for 9 years now, replacing two year old wet cell 8D's. Price were comparable.
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Old 07-26-2018, 04:31 AM   #22
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I've been boating for over 30 years. Ronaldous Maximous was president!
Anyway, I've always been into routine maintenance. I believe, it's better to do a little work now and spend a little money now vs. a bunch later.
I just took possession of my boat in May of this year. I did check the oil once a week, at least every 2 weeks. Never checked the water in the batteries. The previous owner stayed plugged in, a sure sign that the batteries need topping off on occasion. Hauled the boat for painting and such last week. Just got around to checking the water in the batteries. Way low! The cells were exposed. Now I have 2, very expensive 8D's that ran for an undetermined amount of time with the cells exposed. I can see batteries in my future. For a 15 minute job to check the water, it's going to cost me big time. Maybe they were already toasted? At least I would have had a shot.
That's a 1 time per month thing for me, usually. It certainly will be from now on!
Whatever state the batteries are in, it did not happen in the last two months.

Fill them up, charge and hope for the best.
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Old 07-26-2018, 04:34 AM   #23
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Firefly Batteries

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Originally Posted by Miz Trom View Post
Hi Molly:

Who are you having paint your boat down there in Punta Gorda?

We researched the heck out of the Firefly batteries before we bought them. Among many other advantages, they have no water levels to check. We have six, and this bank is both our house and starting battery system.

https://www.bruceschwab.com/advanced...asis-group-31/

Just another thing to consider before buying more lead acid batteries.

Pea
I'd love to hear your experience with Firefly batteries so far.
Maybe even anew thread??

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Old 07-26-2018, 05:38 AM   #24
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NAPA frequently has 8D on sale , 5 years at least with modest care.

I would adjust the float voltae from the 12v charger , it would seem to be set too high.

Most batt water needs come from hard charging with a big alt.

Dockside 120v charging ,every month should easily be enough checking.

One problem I have found with older , dumber chargers is they will sense a discharge , toilet or fridge ,whatever, and then switch from float to full charge to remake the 100% full.. This cycle a few times a day eats water.

A digital Volt meter is frequently free at discount sellers , certainly always under $10.. You might monitor the shore charge during the day,
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Old 07-26-2018, 06:21 AM   #25
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Top them off....as others have said, don't condemn them on principal.



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Old 07-26-2018, 12:57 PM   #26
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Thanx for all the responses.
My thoughts are sort of obvious. Top them off and wait and see. I may get another season or two out of them. I spend a lot of time on the hook, so I'll find out relatively quick. With the fridge and lights, TV and the like. I will have to run the genny anyway, for some reason power boats usually have electric stoves. I will charge the batteries at least once a day.

As far as batteries go, I would go with lead/acid. Simply put, it's way cheaper. AGM would be 4x's the price. Firefly, foam carbon, only comes in size 31 and 110 AH for $500. I would need 8 - 10 to match the AH's I have. Way too much! I need around 800 AH for a boat my size. Lead/Acid are cheap and reliable. If you go up a few levels from COSCO, a typical lead/acid battery will last 7 years. Of course, checking the water level is key.

I do agree with one of the earlier posts. Since it is a new boat for me, I should check the charger and make sure it's not cooking my batteries. My initial reaction is that when you leave a boat plugged in, you loose water and cook the batteries, no matter what. I plug in when necessary and unplug when not needed. If I am plugged in for any length of time, I will turn the charger off. I would rather monitor the voltage.

One of my future projects is to install digital voltage monitor, maybe a LINK system. Plus a couple of solar panels. Had it my last boat. I could spend 48 hrs on the hook, with fridge, lights, TV and stuff without running the genny. Had a propane stove though. Maybe that's another project?

Aren't boats wonderful? You spend way too much money for the boat, then continue the spending until you sell it. Then start all over again when you get the next boat.

Buddy
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Old 07-26-2018, 03:39 PM   #27
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Who did you purchase yours (Firefly batteries) through? Their so-called dealers sure aren't promoting them much and at least one dealer claims they're on backorder and he doesn't have any. - BandB
Hi BandB:

We bought the first six from Fisheries Supply in 2017, had them delivered to our home, and then drove them up to Gainesville, FL to have them installed on our new boat. They were all tested and in pristine condition when we delivered them. (www.fisheriessupply.com)

A year later, the casing of one of the batteries was cracked when our surveyor inspected the boat. From its appearance, we think it was dropped before installation. The one with the broken casing was still functioning during the lake test of the new boat, but on the recommendation of our surveyor and marine electrician we decided to replace it.

We bought a replacement Firefly from Coastal Climate Control www.coastalclimatecontrol.com) last month. We have not installed it yet, but the boat is not yet in use and installing the new one is on our to-do list.

Both websites show they are currently out-of-stock/unavailable. I think they are becoming popular because it takes time to find them. The key is to check weekly on the websites of sellers, and order immediately when you see that they are available.

We are hoping that they live up to their specifications, which are remarkable when compared to LA and AGM batteries. A few cruisers have been using them now for a couple of years but we have only seen one report over on Cruisers Forum, and this report primarily discusses a Balmar smartgauge...
Interesting behavior - Firefly batteries, Balmar Smartgauge, small solar panel - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Regards,
Pea
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Old 07-26-2018, 04:02 PM   #28
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Hi BandB:

We bought the first six from Fisheries Supply in 2017, had them delivered to our home, and then drove them up to Gainesville, FL to have them installed on our new boat. They were all tested and in pristine condition when we delivered them. (www.fisheriessupply.com)

A year later, the casing of one of the batteries was cracked when our surveyor inspected the boat. From its appearance, we think it was dropped before installation. The one with the broken casing was still functioning during the lake test of the new boat, but on the recommendation of our surveyor and marine electrician we decided to replace it.

We bought a replacement Firefly from Coastal Climate Control www.coastalclimatecontrol.com) last month. We have not installed it yet, but the boat is not yet in use and installing the new one is on our to-do list.

Both websites show they are currently out-of-stock/unavailable. I think they are becoming popular because it takes time to find them. The key is to check weekly on the websites of sellers, and order immediately when you see that they are available.

We are hoping that they live up to their specifications, which are remarkable when compared to LA and AGM batteries. A few cruisers have been using them now for a couple of years but we have only seen one report over on Cruisers Forum, and this report primarily discusses a Balmar smartgauge...
Interesting behavior - Firefly batteries, Balmar Smartgauge, small solar panel - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Regards,
Pea
I find it very curious that all of their dealers have none available right now.
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:01 AM   #29
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I was in fisheries supply on Sunday. They had two of the firefly sitting on the show room floor. Don’t know if they are spoken for.
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:44 AM   #30
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"One of my future projects is to install digital voltage monitor, maybe a LINK system."

Voltage doesn't tell much but a Link, or any brand of SOC , state of charge , is probably the best $150 you can spend.

I prefer the Bogart , but there are lots of brands.

Bogart TM 2030A TriMetric AH/Volt Meter
$143.97
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TriMetric Model Descriptions - Bogart Engineering

TriMetric Model Descriptions - Bogart Engineering

Measures battery % full, based on amp hour measurements for accurate information on state of charge (SOC). This method is more accurate than monitors that ...
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Bogart Engineering Trimetric Battery Meter Kit | Backwoods Solar


For folks just getting started Backwoods Solar has a fantastic paper catalog to peruse.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:16 AM   #31
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. My initial reaction is that when you leave a boat plugged in, you loose water and cook the batteries, no matter what. I plug in when necessary and unplug when not needed. If I am plugged in for any length of time, I will turn the charger off. I would rather monitor the voltage.

One of my future projects is to install digital voltage monitor, maybe a LINK system.
Buddy
Not necessarily with the correct smart charger set to the correcty battery profile. My Sterling 40 amp charges my 4 battery Golf Cart bank at 13V when idling. A number sufficiently low to prevent boiling and keep just above a full charge voltage of 12.7. A friend juat had a charger go awry and cook a 31 case battery . No great loss, but it tuned him into the charger failure.. Having monitoring equipment is very helpful. I can hang for 2 days on the hook and not go below 50% capacity and still keep the beer cold...
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Old 07-28-2018, 06:47 AM   #32
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[QUOTE=Molly;684186]

As far as batteries go, I would go with lead/acid. Simply put, it's way cheaper. AGM would be 4x's the price.

I am surprised to hear you say that.AGM & wet cell battery prices are much of a muchness over here, and our marine parts prices are almost always more than you pay over stateside. The great things with AGM's is the 'set & forget' feature, that is assuming your charger system is set up properly.
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:30 AM   #33
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You should fill them with water and do an equalize charge on them, then see what you have.

The big claim of Fireflys is their ability to operate at a partial state of charge for long periods without sulfation. This has been verified by many users and a few independent tests. Probably more important on a sailboat than a powerboat.

The company that owns the rights is a peculiar one, and doesn't seem to have the ability to ramp production to match demand. They also have a large capacity 2V/4V version for building large banks. Like LiFePo4, their cost is high but their lifetime cost may be lower than flooded cells.
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Old 07-28-2018, 12:18 PM   #34
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Update.... Had to use 2 gallons of distilled water! WOW!
I would be surprised to get another season out of these. We'll see. For now, they start the boat and that's all I need for now. In October she goes back in and then we will have the real test. At 160 #'s each, that will be fun anyway!
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Old 07-28-2018, 12:29 PM   #35
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Update.... Had to use 2 gallons of distilled water! WOW!
I would be surprised to get another season out of these. We'll see. For now, they start the boat and that's all I need for now. In October she goes back in and then we will have the real test. At 160 #'s each, that will be fun anyway!
You may be surprised, I use 1 gallon and half in mine and still not too bad.

L
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Old 07-28-2018, 12:40 PM   #36
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Update.... Had to use 2 gallons of distilled water! WOW!
I would be surprised to get another season out of these. We'll see. For now, they start the boat and that's all I need for now. In October she goes back in and then we will have the real test. At 160 #'s each, that will be fun anyway!


I’ve mentioned it before, but when I had wet cells I put the dehumidifier drain hose into a water bottle in the sink. Every time I went aboard I would use that to top off the batteries. It quick and convenient.

Now that my batteries are not in a convenient location, I use AGM.
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Old 07-28-2018, 03:41 PM   #37
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You should fill them with water and do an equalize charge on them, then see what you have.

The big claim of Fireflys is their ability to operate at a partial state of charge for long periods without sulfation. This has been verified by many users and a few independent tests. Probably more important on a sailboat than a powerboat.

The company that owns the rights is a peculiar one, and doesn't seem to have the ability to ramp production to match demand. They also have a large capacity 2V/4V version for building large banks. Like LiFePo4, their cost is high but their lifetime cost may be lower than flooded cells.
And there you've hit upon the two big reasons not to purchase FireFly's. First is cost, but the larger one to me right now is availability. Eventually, they're going to fail and if you need to replace one or four or eight, will you be able to quickly get a replacement? Will it be same day? We haven't encountered a surprise yet on a boat, perhaps because we monitor and we replace before they reach that point, but every car battery I've ever replaced has come as a surprise. Right now I'm concerned about what is going on and whether the company is dying as not one of their regional dealers appears to have any available. Perhaps it's the distributor. I don't know, but lack of product availability reflects some sort of serious problem.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:37 AM   #38
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Question.
How do you know if your charger is over charging? Allegedly, my charger is at full charge until 80/85% is reached. Then it goes down in charging power until 95% is reached. Then it will hit a trickle charge, There is a battery isolator, which is supposed to make sure the weakest battery is charged first. I think that means, it will switch back and forth to always be charging the weakest battery. I would think, if that trickle charge part is still too powerful, that's when you cook the batteries. There is a digital read out on the charger, not sure what I'm looking at.
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Old 07-30-2018, 12:28 PM   #39
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Question.
How do you know if your charger is over charging? Allegedly, my charger is at full charge until 80/85% is reached. Then it goes down in charging power until 95% is reached. Then it will hit a trickle charge, There is a battery isolator, which is supposed to make sure the weakest battery is charged first. I think that means, it will switch back and forth to always be charging the weakest battery. I would think, if that trickle charge part is still too powerful, that's when you cook the batteries. There is a digital read out on the charger, not sure what I'm looking at.


You need to find the manual for the charger and read it carefully. I don’t understand batteries but my understanding is that your charger should initially bulk change at the max amount of amps that your batteries can handle (based on the battery manufacturer charging instructions). Once the batteries reach the absorb voltage (again specified by the battery manufacturer) the batteries are held at that voltage for either a specified period of time or until the amps required to maintain that voltage drop to to a given value. Then your charger holds the batteries at the batteries float voltage. This float will gradually completely recharge the batteries.

So it isn’t that the % numbers you gave are wrong, but they are secondary to the amps and voltages used for the three stages of charging. Again, find out what the ideal battery charge profile should be and then make sure your charger is programmed to provide that. I wouldn’t necessarily trust that they PO had it setup correctly. I know that I’ve setup chargers incorrectly in the past.

It is easy to check if the charger is holding the batteries at the proper voltage just by using a multimeter at the batteries. So, if your charger is programmed to hold a float voltage of 13.4v for example, you should see 13.4v at the battery. If you see more than that, then there may be a problem with your charger.

Now, if your charger is older and can’t be programmed for your specific battery type or can’t handle three stage charging you may want to consider upgrading the charger at some point as it will save you money on batteries in the long run.

Of course, you should ignore anything I post about batteries as I am really ignorant on the topic.
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Old 08-03-2018, 12:45 PM   #40
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I replaced 3 8D batteries with group 24 batteries. Three group 24 batteries fit perfectly inside the 8D battery box and are much lighter than even a group 31. I can change them myself. I manufactured short cables to connect the batteries inside the boxes.



It does add additional cells to check for water level but I can change these batteries myself.
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