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Old 03-31-2016, 11:56 AM   #41
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This is a really good idea. I have a bucket vac, but it's stored in the lazarette and a pain to get to, then I have to mount it to the bucket which is always full of brushes and other items, then find the x cord. Etc. Etc.

The long pool squirt gun might even stand up in the bilge so I can just open the hatch, suck out last bit of water, squirt it in sink, replace gun and hatch.

Thanks!
That's what I do.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - My bilge pump sucks...
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Old 03-31-2016, 01:05 PM   #42
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FF, thats not the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, but its close.
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Old 03-31-2016, 01:06 PM   #43
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Well I obviously missed that post! Stupid brain!
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Old 04-01-2016, 07:20 AM   #44
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"FF, thats not the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, but its close."

Cooling the hydraulics internally , instead of outside?

Have someone explain KISS to you.
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:16 AM   #45
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Ok, I understand simple, so, lets get rid of all of that annoying engine cooling plumbing and simply drop 2 tubes from the engine into the bilge and fill the bilge with antifreeze. Super simple
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:48 AM   #46
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My steel vessel never had a drop of water in the bilge (except for the tens of gallons that came through the porthole during one nasty Oregon storm). Storm aside, both packing glands drained into the shower sump. The anchor locker (watertight compartment) had a false floor grating and its own little plastic "shower" sump. Good design and control of water sources did the job.

The biggest pain in the arse was cleaning out that disgusting shower sump which clogged weekly.

It sounds like you controlled your aircon condensate very well, so just control the anchor locker leakage - either via a dedicated sump or by sealing the bottom and raising the "floor" level to above the waterline. You using rope or chain?

A dry bilge is a wonderful thing. You can then thoroughly clean it out with ammonia and bleach and be happy after that...

... btw, can anyone guess what that wonderful smelling vapor was that I created when I mixed those two chemicals?????
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:43 AM   #47
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The biggest pain in the arse was cleaning out that disgusting shower sump which clogged weekly.
A number of years ago, I saw a recommendation by Peggy (The Headmistress) to squirt some Raritan CP into the shower sump after using the shower. Something about the enzymes in the CP helping to breakdown the hair that gets trapped in the sump. I have been doing that since and never had any problems.

Now, my boat was not a live aboard, so the shower usage wasn't as heavy and the shower sump was only used for the shower. So as always, YMMV
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Old 04-01-2016, 10:37 AM   #48
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Ok, I understand simple, so, lets get rid of all of that annoying engine cooling plumbing and simply drop 2 tubes from the engine into the bilge and fill the bilge with antifreeze. Super simple
You sir are a genius!

You could just have a continuous raw water leak from a seacock that a bilge pump pumps out to keep exchanging out the hot "coolant" water in your bilge for fresh cool water.

Or better yet, lay keel coolers in the bilge for each item you need to cool and let the raw water wash over them.
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Old 04-01-2016, 11:07 AM   #49
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I have often wondered why keel coolers are always on the outside of the hull, where they are difficult to keep from fouling. In the bilge, attached to the hull for their full length, especially in a steel hull, would be so much easier to keep clean and otherwise to inspect and maintain. On a FG hull the attachment would need close attention to assure thermal transfer, and it wouldn't work at all on a wood hull, but I have never heard of it being done on any hull.

returning to the topic of this thread:
After a diligent search, I identified and stopped all of the sources of new water in my bilge and received complaints from the admiral that the bilge has started to smell. Better to let things leak a little and get the old water pumped out, replaced with cleaner, non smelly water, than to fight the stagnation of the little bit that the pumps wont remove.
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:08 PM   #50
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After a diligent search, I identified and stopped all of the sources of new water in my bilge and received complaints from the admiral that the bilge has started to smell. Better to let things leak a little and get the old water pumped out, replaced with cleaner, non smelly water, than to fight the stagnation of the little bit that the pumps wont remove.

If you've eliminated all sources of new water -- and then take the time to suck out the last remaining old water (wet-vac or rags or squirt gun or whatever) -- that stagnation thing won't usually occur.

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Old 04-01-2016, 04:21 PM   #51
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Chris:

You state the obvious. However, my bilge is 35'x16", all of it uneven, much of it inaccessible to vacuum or wiping rags. There is also that silly habit of letting the packings drip just so. I think I was happier with leaks and a reliable bilge pump.
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:25 PM   #52
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A dry bilge is a wonderful thing. You can then thoroughly clean it out with ammonia and bleach and be happy after that...

... btw, can anyone guess what that wonderful smelling vapor was that I created when I mixed those two chemicals?????
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chlorine

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Old 04-01-2016, 09:15 PM   #53
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... chloramine... hydrochloric acid... benzene... chemical weapon (although not mustard gas which is the common belief).

Luckily I was in my young 20's and only inhaled a bit. It's weird though, because when I was in my 20's I knew everything!
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Old 04-02-2016, 12:52 AM   #54
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Actually, it doesn't suck enough!

1. I recently washed the chain off in the chain locker, and all the water drained right to the bilge-- I didn't expect that but maybe that's normal.

2. My problem is my bilge pump does not get all the water out. It leaves about 1/2" of water there and that drives me crazy. Is there a better pump that would suck it all out? Maybe install a secondary pump? I've been use the wet vac to get it all out but that's getting old.
1. Not, it's not normal, most anchor lockers have a drain to the outside. Maybe if you block off the current outlet drain, then drill through the hull at the lowest point of the locker, (usually far enough above the waterline to not be an issue), and epoxy into the hole a plastic tube, or something along this lines you could get yours draining outboard..? You can then put a stainless vent cover over it to disguise it.

2. No, there is no way, unless your boat is dripless everything, and you are prepared to get down there with a rag to finish off, or grout out a recess in the lowest part of the bilge and set the pump into that, but then there's still the back flow when it turns off, and that might compromise the hull thickness or core. Otherwise...just get over it like the rest of us wet bilgers...
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:02 AM   #55
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"I have often wondered why keel coolers are always on the outside of the hull, where they are difficult to keep from fouling. In the bilge, attached to the hull for their full length, especially in a steel hull, would be so much easier to keep clean and otherwise to inspect and maintain."

Many metal boats , steel or aluminum do use internal cooling.

The coolant is plumbed into passages welded to the skin , and covered with a bolted plate .

There is a requirement for enough hull surface area to cool the engine in tropical conditions, with full throttle use.

I believe its covered in "the Nature of Boats", or Skeins. No external drag , or holes in the skin.

There is a huge difference in the coolant requirements for a 50-500HP diesel, and a 1 hp at max hyd system.

An almost maint free cooling system can be created , but a GRP hull is harder to do.

An external keel cooler is more predictable in its cooling ability.
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:28 AM   #56
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Chris:

You state the obvious. However, my bilge is 35'x16", all of it uneven, much of it inaccessible to vacuum or wiping rags. There is also that silly habit of letting the packings drip just so. I think I was happier with leaks and a reliable bilge pump.

Yeah, thought so, didn't mean to sound critical.

Given traditional packings... I'd guess you can't get there from here... simply because you can't really eliminate all the sources of new water.

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Old 04-02-2016, 09:15 AM   #57
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FF, I've got an idea. We build a cooler/heat exchanger and put it in the bilge, hook the engine to it. Then we build a float valve on a thru hull that lets water into the bilge and regulates it at a preset level. We use the raw water pump on the engine to suck the water up and out with the exhaust. We'll call it a "bilge cooler". You may be on to something with your idea.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:46 AM   #58
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Using an off the shelf Keelcooler , or an internal one has NO requirement to have the vessel need a sea water pump.

Exhaust manifolds can be cooled with sea water , but why bother?

A std dry stack can use wrapped/insulated wet or dry exhaust manifolds , no external water required.

This keel cooled dry stack is what allows many commercial vessels to use car or truck engines and simply visit the scrap yard should an engine blow.

With proper deck house build the R&R seldom takes a weekend .

Go up to Maine where the real fun folks have 2 engines for their lobster boats .

One a plonker to work for a living , one a drop in snorter for the races.
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:04 AM   #59
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I realize that FF, I was just trying to extrapolate on your hydraulic cooling system.
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Old 04-02-2016, 02:46 PM   #60
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They all suck, except the ones that don't suck very well, really suck.
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