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Old 11-09-2010, 12:11 PM   #21
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Thanks all. So the answer seems to be yes, no, and maybe. The book did say "some" boats and it makes sense that a full displacement hull would be tougher than something flat. I would imagine rudder size/efficiency also come into play. Nothing left but to try it (next nice day I have the time). I'm still a relative newbie at this and, at worst, it will be good, additional practice. Even if my boat won't actually move directly sideways, I might find that it will do something else of use.

I'll let you know.
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Old 11-09-2010, 01:10 PM   #22
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Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Quote:
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Even if my boat won't actually move directly sideways, I might find that it will do something else of use.
You will learn a lot, regardless of how your boat behaves.* It's far more important I think to learn what your boat does in such-and-such a situation than try to duplicate what someone else does (or theorizes about) with a different boat.* Our boat doesn't move directly sideways, period.* It doesn't even drift directly sideways in a 90-degree crosswind because above-water windage and below-water drag are not evenly distributed.*

So having found all this out a long time ago, it's a maneuver we don't even consider when faced with a close-in maneuvering situation.* What we do instead is use moves and techniques that DO work with our boat.* Some of these we were taught by boaters more experienced than us (like Carey who has given us some great docking advice over the years), some we pulled from previous experience--- our "normal" docking technique draws on our floatplane docking experience for example--- and some maneuvers we've discovered on our own.* So you'll learn a lot when you start "messing around" with maneuvering techniques.

One idea that might be worth pursuing with regards to trying various docking maneuvers (if you haven't done this already) is to do it open water using a floating cushion of some sort as the "dock."* You can't damage anything, you won't put anyone else's boat in jeopardy, and you can approach the thing from all directions, upwind, downwind, etc.* While not as good as using an actual dock, this open water maneuvering will at least give you a feel for how your boat responds to differential thrust and different rudder inputs, how fast (or slowly) it responds, and so on.* The floating cushion will give you visual reference against which you can judge your boat's behavior.

As Eric has said earlier, with practice you can maneuver anything




-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 02:13:35 PM
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:29 PM   #23
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Just a note on this "parallel" docking, which is what you doing when you attempt to move your boat sideways. With a single engine boat and a bow thruster, parallel parking is a breeze. You pull up along side the forward boat, hit your thruster to about a 45 degree angle (just like a car) and as you are backing you can adjust the angle with the thruster. When the stern is fully in to the dock and the bow has cleared the boat in front of you, just thrust the bow to the dock and your in. I have had to run a slalom course in reverse over the years to get my boat to the TraveLift at the yard. No panic, just hitting the thruster to keep me on the desired reverse course. It also compensates for any prop walk that might occur.
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:44 PM   #24
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Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:

Just a note on this "parallel" docking, which is what you doing when you attempt to move your boat sideways. With a single engine boat and a bow thruster, parallel parking is a breeze. You pull up along side the forward boat, hit your thruster to about a 45 degree angle (just like a car) and as you are backing you can adjust the angle with the thruster. When the stern is fully in to the dock and the bow has cleared the boat in front of you, just thrust the bow to the dock and your in. I have had to run a slalom course in reverse over the years to get my boat to the TraveLift at the yard. No panic, just hitting the thruster to keep me on the desired reverse course. It also compensates for any prop walk that might occur.

*

I don't get it. Why would you back in when you could do it forward? My single screw with thruster and a keel, drives in more or less like a car. I approach the opening ( given a space at least four feet longer than my boat, at a thirty to forty five degree angle, aimed at a point one third back in the space. When my bow is about six feet from the dock, I turn my helm all the way away from the dock and apply a couple seconds of forward thrust, wait until I am there, and apply a short shot of reverse to stop forward motion. If my bow starts to go off the dock at this point, then I give it a shot of bow thruster. Works every time, even with the wind blowing off the dock.


*


-- Edited by Carey on Tuesday 9th of November 2010 03:45:46 PM
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:14 PM   #25
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Quote:
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I don't get it. Why would you back in when you could do it forward?
Since the reaction of the bow with a thruster is quicker that turning the helm, adding/retarding power or waiting for prop walk to occur, I have found that I have better controll, faster reaction and no helm needed when backing in to a tight spot.* Not to mention that if for some unforseen reason the space shrinks (overshooting, boat in front reverses, etc., your escape route is forward and you are already pointing that way. I had an expert 5 years ago show me this and it really stuck.

Sure, space permitting, go in bow first.


*



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Old 11-09-2010, 03:52 PM   #26
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:

*
Carey wrote:
I don't get it. Why would you back in when you could do it forward?
Since the reaction of the bow with a thruster is quicker that turning the helm, adding/retarding power or waiting for prop walk to occur, I have found that I have better controll, faster reaction and no helm needed when backing in to a tight spot.* Not to mention that if for some unforseen reason the space shrinks (overshooting, boat in front reverses, etc., your escape route is forward and you are already pointing that way. I had an expert 5 years ago show me this and it really stuck.

Sure, space permitting, go in bow first.
Even in questionable space, it's been foolproof (and in my case that's a good thing). Not by choice, but rather my own mis-judgement of space, I have gotten into spaces just two feet longer than my overall length. I certainly wouldn't presume to say you should change your method. As to my doing so, I don't think I have a substantial enough thruster to make it work. I might try it sometime when I am forced to back down a fairway and then parallel park though. Thanks for the explanation.

*

*



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Old 11-09-2010, 04:01 PM   #27
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

AllAs to prop walk, and how it's effecting your maneuvering, I must say I am dumbfounded. I run a 26"x24" five bladed screw powered by 420hp, and find prop walk so negligible that it is never under any circumstances a necessary part of my docking equation. I understand the principle, but have never found that it overshadowed the effects of the keel, rudder or inertia. But that's me and my boat.
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Old 11-10-2010, 03:54 AM   #28
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

With a 32 square wheel , and a rudder suitable for 12K, we can walk the stern with ease!
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:29 AM   #29
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

The one thing that nobody seems to mention that is at least as important as bowthrusters/sternthrusters/jet packs/pod drives and other assorted goodies is ENVIRONMENTAL.
Use the current to your advantage! Get the current on either side of your bow or stern to set yuo into the dock and feather as needed.
I've taught boat handling to many people and the women are way easier to get this concept than men.
Watch at a fuel dock sometime and see vsls approach with current behind them. Instead of tucking their stern in and letting the current set the stern to the dock, they will insist on turning the bow towards the dock ,letting the current grab them (and then yelling at the misses!)
This maneuver is called a fair tide landing (or "ferryboat" landing). Boats with bow thrusters are
the worst culprits on fairtide landings. Instead of thrusting away from the dock, they will insist on
thrusting towards the dock-all wrong when the current is on your stern.
Obviously approaching the dock INTO the current is most preffered method but not always possible.

Anytime you have to dock, try to find something in your favor-either wind or current if possible.
Technology is nice, but use ALL available means to the end (or at least be aware of them).

just my 2 cents worth
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:04 PM   #30
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Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Quote:
Sailor of Fortune wrote:

The one thing that nobody seems to mention that is at least as important as bowthrusters/sternthrusters/jet packs/pod drives and other assorted goodies is ENVIRONMENTAL.
Use the current to your advantage! Get the current on either side of your bow or stern to set yuo into the dock and feather as needed.
I've taught boat handling to many people and the women are way easier to get this concept than men.
Watch at a fuel dock sometime and see vsls approach with current behind them. Instead of tucking their stern in and letting the current set the stern to the dock, they will insist on turning the bow towards the dock ,letting the current grab them (and then yelling at the misses!)
This maneuver is called a fair tide landing (or "ferryboat" landing). Boats with bow thrusters are
the worst culprits on fairtide landings. Instead of thrusting away from the dock, they will insist on
thrusting towards the dock-all wrong when the current is on your stern.
Obviously approaching the dock INTO the current is most preffered method but not always possible.

Anytime you have to dock, try to find something in your favor-either wind or current if possible.
Technology is nice, but use ALL available means to the end (or at least be aware of them).

just my 2 cents worth
Absolutely everything you say is true, yet so difficult for some to understand, considering all the variables. Perhaps the best way to describe docking is to say you must be aware of all elements of the process, and the physics involved. First, know your boat, and how it functions in static conditions, and then consider all the other factors. And the other thing none of has spent much time talking about is "escape". How do you escape if your attempted maneuver goes bad. If you haven't considered an escape route prior to your attempt, you are asking for trouble. And finally, when close maneuvering, never proceed any faster than you'd like to be going when you strike the boat next to you.*

*


-- Edited by Carey on Wednesday 10th of November 2010 01:16:24 PM
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:52 PM   #31
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Quote:
Carey wrote:

when close maneuvering, never proceed any faster than you'd like to be going when you strike the boat next to you.*

The best point I have heard made on the subject

SD*



-- Edited by Carey on Wednesday 10th of November 2010 01:16:24 PM
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Old 11-11-2010, 08:57 AM   #32
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

When landing a boat, the trick is to get the dock and the boat moving at the same speed.
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Old 11-11-2010, 09:32 AM   #33
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

As in any other kind of landing, any docking with no paint damage is a good docking.
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Old 11-11-2010, 09:44 AM   #34
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Hiya,
** I've heard any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.* Heck, I've backed into a slip sideways (on more than one occasion and NOT on purpose)*and other than my pride being slightly bruised have considered it a success.* It's all the same once you're tied up.
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Old 11-11-2010, 10:41 AM   #35
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Capt'n Ron Firefly.

SD
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:07 PM   #36
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Me thinks the board needs our own "official" movie. I nominate Captain Ron!
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Old 11-12-2010, 03:08 AM   #37
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Hiya,
**** Mr. SD, you've been up in the woods too long.* I think the board is more suited to...
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:11 AM   #38
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

This one is great!
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:13 AM   #39
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

Hiya,
** Mr. Keith.* Now THAT'S definatly in the running!* Thanks.
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:15 AM   #40
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RE: Moving a twin engine boat sideways(?).

RT, I posted your link over on Facebook under the title: "
New video from Carnival Splendor".
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